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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Houses and associated planets

 
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carriere.francois



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 106

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject: Houses and associated planets Reply with quote

Hello,

In Deborah's book, «The Houses: Temples of the sky», planets are associated to houses (chaldean order and joy). I hardly understand the use of this association. Can anyone explain? Thank you.
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François CARRIÈRE
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zuli



Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 83

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carriere.francois wrote:
I hardly understand the use of this association.


I also can not understand how Saturn can be associated with the first house when the latter is the worst place for it.
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kerenhappuch



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 396
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturn rules our soul "going in" to the body (a grounding of our spirit), and also it "coming out" (physical death). Saturn is the lord of boundaries and doorways, so it is appropriate that he rules the first house, which is where the soul enters the body at the moment of birth.

The planets then follow the order round to Jupiter in the 2nd, etc. Then back to Saturn in the 8th - again making perfect sense as he is the lord of death, to repeat the order up to Venus in the 12th. You will find that spending a few minutes' contemplation on this will allow your understanding to develop and so I will not go into it here.

Remember the joys are where the planet is said to show its best side, to be at its happiest and most positive expression - much like exaltation. The joys might seem random at first but they have a pattern to them too - they go in pairs:

Saturn - 12th
Mars - 6th

The malefics joy in the malefic houses to protect us - Saturn in the 12th as the lord of boundaries protecting us from our "self-undoing", and Mars as the energy we need to get better from illness, or the surgeon's knife which can cut out the diseased organ.

Jupiter - 11th
Venus - 5th

The benefics joy in the houses of socialising and enjoyment - Jupiter in the 11th as our friends, gifts and wishes, and Venus in the 5th as our lovers (also drinking, games, and gambling!).

Mercury - 1st
Mercury joys here because this puts the "thinking" planet in our "head" (1st house).

Sun - 9th
Moon - 3rd
The Sun has its joy in the 9th as spiritual light, faith and guidance, the Moon in the 3rd as the reflected light and wisdom of the Sun illuminating our daily routine.

It does seem confusing at first but there is a pattern to the joys and they are very useful in helping to understand the deeper meanings of the houses and planets. You will find that after letting them ruminate in your mind for a while your understanding will become more clear. You may also find it useful to explore the meaning of "exaltation" and "joy" in the context of the Christian tradition which Lilly was working within. Even if you disagree wholeheartedly with the religion, it is a useful area of interest in really getting to the heart of traditional astrology as practised in Lilly's time.

I hope this helps!

Keren
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3446
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I also can not understand how Saturn can be associated with the first house when the latter is the worst place for it.


It is arguably one of the better places for it, especially in great dignity. Saturn, after all has to do with structure and so does the body.

The logic goes something like this (warning: oversimplified version follows):

1: Saturn - structure
2: Jupiter - wealth
3: Mars - brothers; also the desire to relate to the world
4: Sun - ancestry (father, when it is necessary to differentiate the parents)
5: Venus: pleasure
6: Mercury - servants, ambassadors
7: Moon - spouse (traditional astrology is patriarchal)
8: Saturn - death, destruction
9: Jupiter - religion, philosophy
10: Mars - action
11: Sun - Gifts from Heaven, bounty
12: Venus - temptation followed by self undoing

The joys are a bit different and lend their own meaning to the houses in addition to the Chaldean order above. For the record:

Mercury joys in the ascendant
Moon joys in the 3rd
Venus joys in the 5th
Mars joys in the 6th
Sun joys in the 9th
Jupiter joys in the 11th
Saturn joys in the 12th

Notice the joys are arranged by sect. Night planets, Moon, Mars and Venus, joy below the horizon. Day planets Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn joy above the horizon. Mercury, ever both sides of the coin joys on the ASC straddling day and night. They may have been an early rulership system, but to my knowledge there is no evidence to support that statement.

Tom
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carriere.francois



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 106

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Keren and Tom,

Thank you very much for your thorough answer, both of you!

Now, for the record, in Indian astrology, the 12th house is also the house "of the pleasure of the bed" and also have to do with sleeping well or not.

Also, for the joy of the planets, to complete what Keren has already said, if one look at them from the first house, and look at their aspect to it, we see that the benefics aspect the first house harmoniously, while the malefics, Mars and Saturn, have no Ptolomean aspect to the First House (they are inconjunct).
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François CARRIÈRE
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4954
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In Deborah's book, «The Houses: Temples of the sky», planets are associated to houses (chaldean order and joy). I hardly understand the use of this association. Can anyone explain? Thank you.

I think we need to keep in mind that the joys and planetary co-significators have totally different applications. The joys have a general application to all kinds of astrology. However the planetary co-significators and signs tied to each house were traditionally restricted to medical astrology only.

Deb makes this point clear on her notes to the skyscript horary course:
Quote:
The use of planets and signs as co-significators for houses is not used in horary judgements; here Lilly is describing a correspondence that has relevance only for medical rulerships. The scheme is based upon the Chaldean order of the planets – Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon – in which Saturn is recognised as the first planet because it is the outermost visible planet. The rest of the planets follow suit according to their proximity to the Earth. This Chaldean order forms the basis of many planetary schemes as you will find as you work through the course. For now, it is important to realise that where, for example, Lilly mentions Mercury as a co-significator of the 6th house, he does so because of the arrangement in this scheme, and not because it is the ruling planet of Virgo.

Mark
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