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Madrid Train Bombings

 
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:50 pm    Post subject: Madrid Train Bombings Reply with quote

This is the chart for the terrible bombings that happened this morning (11th March) at Madrid. There were 10 blasts, plus three defused bombs. They exploded at approx 6:30 am GMT according to the BBC news website - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3500452.stm
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for this Deb. It was on my list of things to do. I heard the news report but it gave no time so I was going to do a search. Now I don't have to. Smile

I don't have time to look at the chart properly but it's hard to miss Pluto sitting on the Midheaven. Also Mercury, ruler of 3rd and 4th houses combust the Sun and in its fall/detriment. Moon in 8th in detriment opposite Mars, ruler of 8th, also in its detriment. Saturn in 4th, also in detriment and trine Uranus in the 12th. Not a good chart really. I'll have a proper look when I get a chance.
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sophia8



Joined: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 13
Location: SW Scotland

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other news sources have given the time as 7.35 GMT (6.35 Spanish time). But the extra five minutes doesn't make a lot of difference. What strikes me about the chart is the T-square formed by Neptune and the Nodes, with TMoon just past conjunction with the SNode; the Moon must have "triggered" the event.
This is the data for Spain that I have:
19 Jan 1479, 12:00, LMT +0:14:44
Madrid SPAIN, 40°N24', 003°W41'
But there are probably others.
_________________
"My goal is simple. It is complete understanding of the Universe, why it is as it is and why it exists at all." Stephen Hawking
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still haven't managed to get back to this chart properly yet but one thing I was thinking about was Saturn in the 4th in its detriment. Saturn in the 4th can indicate grief and sorrow of the people, which is certainly true in this case. But it can also indicate difficulties for the government due to its opposition to the 10th house. From what I can understand, the ruling party in Spain, the Popular Party, will lose power after last Sunday's elections largely because of their responses to the blasts. It seems that they deliberately pointed the finger at ETA for purely political purposes while covering up the facts. There were huge rallies in Spain protesting against the government.
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Deb
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ingress chart for Madrid also has Saturn, the MC ruler, exact on the IC (IC=5.58 Cancer / Saturn=6.26 Cancer) with the Sun in the 12th house applying by square. The 12th house Moon at 22 Pisces applies by sextile to Mars at 29 Taurus (conjunct Alcyone – nature Moon/Mars; Robson calls it ‘distinctly evil’). This falls on the ascendant for the 1479 chart of Spain (Campion, p.256), which has 27 Taurus rising. I haven’t had time for more than a quick glance at the charts either, although I’m sure the political ramifications of the bombings are going to be huge.
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pantomas



Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 1
Location: Poland

Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello

My name is Pantomas. I'm chief editor of polish astrological portal www.astrolabium.pl.

On start I apologize for my English. It is very bad. Ok, let’s go.

I’m found hour Spain on side http://www.astro.com/samples/h2000_ctr_e.htm#B8

There is this date: 22 November 1975, 12.45 pm CET, Madrid.
To that date Sun on horoscope of Spain is situated on 29SC33.

Eclipse of the Sun before attack was 23.11.2003 22:49.
To that date Sun on horoscope of eclipse was 01SA10.

This is tiny orb. I think that is very important.

Pantomas
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jane



Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Posts: 4
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:02 am    Post subject: Timing of attacks Reply with quote

Hi Deb ... I think the 6:30 am time is GMT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_11,_2004_Madrid_attacks
gives the time of the first attack as 7:39 CET which produces the following chart:



The Sun, in this chart, is in the same degree as the Ascendant and posited in the 12th of secret enemies. The Sun rules the 6th House of public utilities/services. Mercury, ruler of the 7th, war/conflict, is in the 1st. Both Sun and Mercury sextile Mars on the cusp of the 3rd House of short journeys. Saturn, ruler of the 12th of secret enemies is in the 4th House which signifies the country, Spain, itself, partile sextile Venus, ruler of the 8th of death and trine Uranus (sudden attack) in the 12th.


Using the Madrid chart date as quoted by Pantomas



Mars in the attack chart opposes Madrid's natal Mercury, ruler of the 8th. Natal Mercury is disposited by Mars. The natal chart also has Saturn, ruler of the 1st, square Uranus in the house of foreigners; in the attack chart these are in trine.

Another chart that is interesting, in light of the events, is the current Mars Cycle Chart erected for Madrid


Mars (attack) is in the 9th within minutes of the MC at Madrid and opposite the Moon, ruler of the Asc. Cycle Mars is also within minutes of the exact square to Mars in Madrid's natal chart and natal Mars rules the 3rd of short journeys.

On March 11, 2004 Cycle Mars had moved to sesqui-square the Moon.

There are a number of interesting connections; sadly, all unfortunate for Madrid.
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Deb
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Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jane (and Pantomas),

Thanks for these, particularly the timings. The BBC gave the time as approx. 6:30 am (GMT) so I’m sure your data is more accurate.

Like Sophia, I think the applying Moon-Mars opposition is a key trigger in the bombing chart. It’s a very malefic Moon – in fall, in Via Combusta, in the 8th house and applying directly to the opposition of Mars which is itself in detriment (a destructive fight rather than an honourable one) and conjunct the malefic stars Capulus (nature Mars-Mercury) and Algol (‘the Ghoul’). It certainly looks more fitting to have Mars on the cusp of the 3rd house, which house system did you use?

The angles of the Madrid chart are very sensitive to the effects of Mars, which by transit at 23 Taurus opposed the midheaven at 25 Scorpio. I thought this was relevant in the way that the bombings had a knock on effect of ousting the government because Mars didn’t just bring the immediate and obvious damage but hit the political system at its roots. Obviously, other factors had to be in place to allow Mars to become so expressive and malevolent in its effect although I suppose the contact with Algol gives the capacity for widespread destruction. The Chinese name for the star means ‘piled-up corpses’ and it is reputed to be the most unfortunate, violent, and dangerous star in the heavens.
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jane



Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Posts: 4
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:14 pm    Post subject: Madrid bombings Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
It certainly looks more fitting to have Mars on the cusp of the 3rd house, which house system did you use?


Oops, sorry:( I used Alchabitius Semi-Arc

Quote:

The angles of the Madrid chart are very sensitive to the effects of Mars, which by transit at 23 Taurus opposed the midheaven at 25 Scorpio.


Thanks, I missed that, it is telling.

Quote:

Obviously, other factors had to be in place to allow Mars to become so expressive and malevolent in its effect although I suppose the contact with Algol gives the capacity for widespread destruction. The Chinese name for the star means ‘piled-up corpses’ and it is reputed to be the most unfortunate, violent, and dangerous star in the heavens.


Do you allow 5° for Fixed Stars? Overlooked Algol on Mars as I'm not used to using them and tend to rely on the software, Janus, which only lists Fixed Star conjunctions with 1° The Chinese description is quite gruesome, and apt Sad
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jane,

Regarding the fixed star orbs - I'll copy this extract from an earlier forum post as that is quite old now. It is taken from an article I wrote a few years back. Hopefully one day I'll get the full article up.

Quote:
In view of the extraordinary influences attributed to the stars, it stands to reason that they should not be used too liberally in interpretation. Most authors agree that the stars do not cast aspects and affect the planets by conjunction and parallel only. Many modem authors also claim that conjunctions must be within 1 degree to be effective although, traditionally, astrologers were guided more by the general nature, magnitude and position of the star than any predetermined limit. William Lilly used an orb of up to 5 or 6 degrees when considering the more important stars and the advice of Vivian Robson, in The Fixed Stars and Constellations in Astrology, is that an orb of up to 7.30 degrees should be allowed for a first magnitude star, decreasing 2 degrees per level of magnitude, down to 1 degree for a fourth magnitude star.

There is a convincing argument that the latitude of the stars should be an influencing factor, since those close to the ecliptic have a more direct effect than those with greater latitudes, and those with northern latitude wield their effect more directly in the northern hemisphere and vice versa. The value of this consideration can be seen where a planet falls upon two stars in proximity by longitude but widely separated by latitude. As an example consider Spica and Arcturus, only 20 minutes apart by zodiacal longitude but separated by an appreciable 32 degrees by latitude. Both are 1st magnitude stars of great importance. It seems sensible then that we should try to pinpoint their influence to some extent by considering in which hemisphere each will be most prominent."


My 'quick and ready' approach is usually to use an orb of 1 degree unless it is a major fixed star - then I go up to about 4 degrees.
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jane



Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Posts: 4
Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Deb.
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