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Derived houses

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Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 1
Location: Derbyshire uk

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: Derived houses Reply with quote

Hi i am new to this forum and have been studying astrology for about four
years, my problem is derived houses i wondered if anyone can help me, i
understand how to find who i am looking for for eg if i want to find my sisters children i would take my third house (siblings) as my sisters first and then count to her fifth (children) but then how do i know anything about them. Do i use the planets in the house or if theres no planets then whatever sign is on the cusp, i really cannot get my head round this any help would be greatly appriciated.
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Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You basically read it like any other house. In your example, imagine the 3rd as a new ascendant, and the 7th being a 5th house. Read it exactly as if it's your 5th house. Start with the sign's ruler and any planets within if any, and then go from there. I always consider the exalted planet for that sign, triplicity ruler, term, and decan as well.

edit: I accidentally wrote the derived house as the 8th. I can't count.
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Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, there, Astrostar, just to say- welcome! Smile

Mithra has basically said everything you needed to know, a derived house is like any other house only now you'll use the 7th house for your nieces, not its main symbolics. If there are any planets inside it, you'll have a better insight, if not, just look for the ruler of the cusp, its placement and shape.

Just a suggestion- there aren't many houses and signs in a chart so each one of them "hides" lots of informations, its up to an Astrologer to find the best way to read these informations right. The rulers and their placements, aspects they make to other planets, which houses these aspected planets occupy and where they're coming's one big story. plus, each planet and sign have got multiple symbolics. And all that before we even get to the derived houses. I'm mentioning this because I used to make a lots of mistakes when I first started using derived houses because one can get stuck with the main symbolics . Sometimes you simply get used to looking at 7th as a house of relationships, partnerships etc. and nieces and 1st marriage are two quite different things. Smile Intercepted houses or double body signs in the 10th will have their own impact to the proffesional life of the Native and we'll just have to "adjust" the meaning of, say, intercepted Gemmini in there to what that house signifies. But, if we use it as a derived house for the home of our first spouse (just an example) will have to think of other meanings symbolics of that sign or its interception inside the house. Having Gemmini in your 10th and intercepted might be a good sign of two professions (of course, not a sign enough by itself most of the time) but, having it there in a derived 4th house (rx 10th is 1st spouses's 4th) might be meaning the Native's first spouse will have an appartment high above the ground/ a house with two entrances or two houses for that matter (this is just an example I've seen in a chart ones but I though it might be descriptive in explanation of how these houses work).

Hope it helps at least a bit! Smile

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Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all,

I have some interesting input here which I deduced from having made hundreds of horoscopes for clients. I would like to focus on one thing here: children using derived houses.

Now there is a BIG difference between a male and a female horoscope regarding this theme. Of course many people will oppose this what I am going to say, but it is founded on my own hundreds of horoscopes and my old master of astrology who was 40 years in the "business" and made some 40.000 charts found this to work in at least of 85% of the cases.

In a FEMALE chart the FIRST child is indicated by the 4th house, the 2nd child by the 6th house, 3rd child by the 8th house and so on.
Why the 4th house for the first child?
For a female here 4th house is connected with the reception of the seed, the growing of the foetus in the womb and the birth from the female organs. It is a complete female matter, so the Cancer-4th-house is fully in business here.

For a MALE horoscope, the FIRST child is indicated by the 5th house of the male horoscope, the 2nd child by the 7th house, and so on.
Why the 5th house for the first child?
For a male the generation of a child is not a process of receiving (like for the female). It is giving the seed, it's analogus to the radiating Sun, he shines, he gives away all his rays.

I will now give an example and explain some new things which maybe nobody before has ever tried, but which functuions for 85% of the cases. Here is the horoscope of my wife. She has had 3 children. The first was a boy, the 2nd and 3rd were girls.

The boy is indicated by H4, Capricorn with Saturn as the ruler which is completely out of his place in Aquarius! MIND.... I am talking about modern astrology here, not traditional astrology.
Saturn in Aquarius denies freedom, especially retrograde. He is feeling bad. The boy was always thrown between the mother and the (separated) father. finally he left his mother's home at the age of 13 years to live with his father. At the age of 17,5 he left the country to go to his native country and live there.
Now the trick....
If the H4 rules the first child, then the MC of that child is given by H1. Progress that MC with 1 degree for each year. Add 17,5 years = 17,5 degrees to 2.36 Libra and you 19.54 almost = square Moons Node
1/2 year before he also left the country (illegally) but returned home after having spent all of his savings. This was MC sqare Venus.

The second child was a girl, she is indicated by H6 with Pisces as "ascendant" and ruler Neptune in her "9th house". She is a quiet type. Never saying much, everything she stores in her mind. Her derived MC is given by H3 with scorpio at 27.21. She left the home at the age of 12 years 5 months. Taking each year as 1 degree you end up with 9.40 Sag. as the progressed MC which is nearly sqare Pluto. She felt threatened at home and this was the reason to leave the home and go live with her father. She changed school twice and her life was completely renewed. MC square Pluto gives something bad (for the mother) but always gives something in return (a new life with more freedom).

The last child is given by H8 with Aries and Mars as the ruler. Her derived MC is 9.02 Aquarius. She is now 12,5 years old giving her progressed MC as 21.30 Aquarius which just has passed Saturn. She is also complaining as having no freedom, which is nonsense to me. But it is her feeling about it. She threatens also to leave the home...but she cannot decide and probably won't do.

So here is the message... try it as much as you can with a LOT of horoscopes and you will find the amazing things about the derived houses.

Good luck... John
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Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really greatful for the observation you shared here. Indeed, it does make a lot of sense. I haven't noticed it myself up untill now but I'm looking forward to "check" what you're saying about the 5th house in male horoscope.

There's another thing that captured my attention recently- I found the approach to the 11th house as a house of second marriage. If anyone is interested I could go back to my notes and search for the authors, i don't really remember right now, all I know it's a modern author and only suggesting it and mentioning the observation based on hundreds of horoscopes. The fact many other things she wrote were rather recognisable, made me think there may be something about this as well. Now, the starting point here is basically purely moralistic - the marriage is "till death do us apart" and thus, every other marriage is the 5th from the 7th house matter (romances after marriage) while the 9th is still considered to be relevant for legalization of the 2nd marriage (9th - legal matters). I must say I'm not completely familiar with this approach itself because I'm aware it's more "till either death or divorce do us appart" which is not all that bad after all for the part of the the future history we live in allows us to chose and correct mistakes, improve and look for better and have legal system on our side more or less ("till death do us apart" does sound like a conviction to me- you're stuck in there, no matter what Smile ) but I do think I could find some indications of 11th house involment in the 2nd marriage matter (or maybe I just think I can). The Sun in the 11th + a double body sign on the 7th cusp- it works. Partial description of 2nd marriage harmony looked through the 11th too. Unfortunatelly, i don't have enough charts to say if I'm even inclined to believe it might be true but I am rather intrigued by this approach. Another thing I would know how to "read" if I had been considering 11th to be connected to the 2nd marriage is- where to look for the 3rd if it happens (5th from the 11th?? ).
Anyways, just something new I have heard of recently.

So here is the message... try it as much as you can with a LOT of horoscopes and you will find the amazing things about the derived houses.

It is all about practice, isn't it?! Smile
I'm so glad that the Astrologers who helped me the most to get the grasp of Astrology and Natal chart reading in the first place had constantly been repeating- if you notice any kind of "pattern", anything repeating in different charts but concerning the same matter- keep an eye on them, never dismiss them even if it means 10 years of searching ofor the proof they actually work. It doesn't need to be written anywhere, you'll know when they work.
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