Hello. I have an essay from a student. I strongly suspect that the essay has been plagarized. However, in order for me to confront the student, I need to have some evidence. I asked a horary about whether I would be able to find evidence of plagarism:

9-26-08, 4:58pm EDT. St. Augustine Beach, FL

I'm Saturn, which makes sense since I'm the authority figure here. I decided to use Mercury to represent the student and his essay. He's retrograde, and in mutual reception with my planet. So what does this mean? He is really far behind in the class--this particular essay was turned in several weeks late. Could the retrograde status also indicate the plagarism (as in, he's copying something that's already been done?)

The moon will first trine Jupiter and then conjunct my planet. I'm inclined to think this indicates something becoming public knowledge, because Jupiter rules the 10th house--so maybe that indicates I'll find the evidence.

If the student really did plagarize, I'd really really like to find some substantiation. I take this kind of thing very seriously.

I'd appreciate any thoughts.

Hi, even if the horary indicated the student plagiarised, you would surely have to find hard evidence, you couldn't just go by that. There are software systems and other tools which should enable you to find this out. And wouldn't any of your colleagues be prepared to help? I realise this is non astrological advice but unless you have proof other than the horary, how are you going to "prove" it to the student and to the university?

SRS

Teacher wrote:Hello. I have an essay from a student. I strongly suspect that the essay has been plagarized. However, in order for me to confront the student, I need to have some evidence. I asked a horary about whether I would be able to find evidence of plagarism:

9-26-08, 4:58pm EDT. St. Augustine Beach, FL

I'm Saturn, which makes sense since I'm the authority figure here. I decided to use Mercury to represent the student and his essay. .

Why did you decide to use Mercury as the student? Are you using the 5th house for the student? Isn't the 3rd house the one to use? (The 5th house rules teachers.)

Also, Neptune is rather prominent in your chart which could mean you are being overly suspicious perhaps and deceiving yourself? It is masculine, which would indicate your actions/energy towards others, rather than being deceived by others or being acted upon by others - it is you who is acting under the Neptune cloud.

Also, the moon is in the 7th and just separating from a sextile to his ruler Venus, which is in a fixed sign and would indicate the report to be true - that is his own. His ruler, fixed in Scorpio, entering the 9th house of study & higher eduction in the sign of Scorpio which can be tenacious when it begins something could merely show he worked on the paper too long in an obsessive manner, trying to make it perfect. His ruler is in mutual reception with Mars, the ruler of the higher education 9th. Also his ruler is in the 9th being so close to its cusp. This all looks like study/work to me.

As a side note, your ASC is in the same degree as the North node: 17:38 ASC and node: 17:48.

According to Ivy Goldstein - Jacobson, this can point to a catastrophe, casualty, fatality or tragedy when so prominent in a chart. It is just passing the ASC degree. Was there anything of that nature which happened recently?

RC

Hi Teacher, why did you use Mercury as the student and the essay?

Hi RC, why the 3rd house for students? I'm curious. I wouldn't know which house for students but I would guess 3rd house for essays certainly. Why 5th house for teachers? Professors are 9th aren't they?

I'd like to get the significators first before I start looking at the chart.


Stan

Hi Teacher.

I'll take a shot at this.

Mercury is of course the natural significator of students and essays, and so is surely worth taking into consideration regardless of the cusps it rules.

Teachers and students are seen across the ninth and third cusps, opposite each other, but this is not a question in which we are to make inquiry regarding ?teachers? and ?students? in general, but in this case, the teacher is the inquirer, and the specific student is to be found in the cusp opposite. The student should be found in the seventh cusp. The question concerns suspicions of being affronted with a plagiarised essay, thus the student is suspected as an ?enemy?.

Caput Draconis is right upon the ascendant, as this node has a benefic nature, and gives the green light for things to proceed and move forward, while conferring the opposite influence upon the quesited, this seems like one positive testimony that the querents suspicions are not false, or at least the querent is given the go ahead to proceed in matters pertaining to this inquiry.

Saturn in Virgo, ascendant ruler, is a purely melancholic, or a doubly cold and dry placement, and so is very shrewd and discerning. If we sought to establish whether or not the querent was ill, this congenial placement would argue to the contrary, so the querent is not out of order in these suspicions. Saturn in the seventh is a reflection of the interest of the querent in the student. Saturn is peregrine because the querent has no evidence either way, there is suspicion, but it cannot be acted upon.

That Mercury is important is only natural given the subject matter, but particularly so in this case, as Saturn is in the domicile and exaltation of Mercury, showing intensity of interest in the student and the written material.

Mercury itself, natural significator of the written material under scrutiny, is present in the malevolent eighth house, as well as being retrograde, which could be re-written, or copied material. The sign is cardinal, so the material was written quickly, or ?dashed off?, as opposed to the hard study of a fixed sign, or the several drafts of a mutable, and the sign is concerned with reflective symmetry, another indication of copying or repetition. This provides more positive testimony as to the possible veracity of the querents suspicions.

The Moon is also in Virgo, and so also intensely interested in Mercury, but is just as peregrine as Saturn, unsure and lacking evidence. The Moon applies to trine Saturn?s dispositor, Jupiter, before coming to conjoin Saturn. This contact of the Moon with the great benefic in the querent?s Saturnian domain, would seem to indicate the suspicions being affirmed, before head and heart (Saturn and Moon) come together once and for all in the resolution of the matter, and yet this is to the distaste of the querent, as the Moon in Virgo is in the fall of Jupiter, and Jupiter in the detriment of the Moon, so the truth is soon to be manifested, but will be most unpalatable to the querent.

Jupiter is currently in trine to Saturn and this aspect is applying, and Jupiter, being in Capricorn, does Saturn?s bidding, despite Saturn?s distaste of Jupiter, being in Virgo. The truth loves the teacher, and it's arrival is imminent, but the teacher hates the truth.

The particular significator of the suspect student is found with the Sun, as Leo descends. The Sun has just entered its fall sign of Libra, and in combination with Cauda Draconis upon the descendant, represents the student in a poor light, particularly as the placement appears in the eighth house. The student is eager to find favour with the teacher, as the Sun is in Saturn?s exaltation.

The specific significator of the essay which has been submitted for marking, would be found in the ninth from the seventh, bringing us to the third cusp which is in Taurus, making Venus the significator of the essay. Like the Sun, we see that Venus, on the students third cusp of written documents, is also badly dignified being in detriment in Scorpio, and also in the eighth.

This wasn't the most in-depth consideration, but I think there is enough testimony here that the essay has been plagiarised, in accordance with your suspicions.

You will probably find confirmation of the essay having been copied within a week and a half from the time the question was asked, or let?s just call it around the beginning of the new month. This is because the Moon needs ten degrees before the trine with Jupiter, and this will be a disappointing experience, as both the Moon and Jupiter will be in negative reception.

Let me know how things go.

Thank you to Magpie and everyone else.

First, let me answer a couple of questions people raised. I do realize that I'll need more than a horary chart as evidence--in fact, that's why I asked the question and drew the chart. At my school, we are not to confront students unless we have hard evidence. I don't want to expend a lot of energy trying to uncover evidence unless I can be reasonably assured I'll be able to find it.

Our school subscribes to a plagarism software program, but in order for me to use it, I need an electronic copy of the document in question to scan. At this point, I have only a hard copy of the student's essay--which means I'll either have to retype it myself, or ask him for an electronic copy.

I sincerely, sincerely doubt that this particular student worked obsessively on the paper. He's been missing a lot of classes and has not handed in some important assignments. I was on the verge of recommending that he withdraw--but he begged me to give him another chance. His attendance has been a lot better in the last couple of weeks. This Monday, he suddenly handed me this essay, which was due about four weeks ago. The writing is much better than anything I have seen from him before. There are a few other elements that also lead to think it may not be his original work, but I won't go into a lot of detail about them.

I like this student, but I can't let him get away with academic dishonesty. He definitely has been trying to curry favor with me. If he did plagarize the paper, then I have to fail him for the course. That's the policy. I don't want to do it, but I will if I have to.

I used Mercury for the student because it is the natural significator of students and writing. I thought going that route would be easier than trying to determine which house cusp to assign to the student--because there are so many different options, as people have pointed out. Sometimes, it's just cleaner and more straightforward to go with the natural significator. However, if other people want to read using a particular house cusp lord, I'd certainly welcome hearing what you have to say.

I think that covers everything that people asked about. Again, I appreciate everyone's feedback.

This Monday, he suddenly handed me this essay, which was due about four weeks ago.

This is interesting, because the Sun, signifying the student, is just over four degrees into it's fall sign of Libra.

I like this student, but I can't let him get away with academic dishonesty. He definitely has been trying to curry favor with me.

That'll be the reception between the Sun and Saturn.

I used Mercury for the student because it is the natural significator of students and writing. I thought going that route would be easier than trying to determine which house cusp to assign to the student--because there are so many different options, as people have pointed out.

It's good to look at natural significators. Often we can overlook them, because we are so focused upon flying straight to the significant houses and cusp rulers, that they can be overlooked, but they are important. If the question is about love for example, Venus may have nothing to do with the significant cusps, and may not be present in any significant houses, but surely given the subject matter, what Venus has to say should be of importance, and in this case, Mercury is definately on the agenda.

I feel confident that the seventh cusp represents the student, for the reasons I gave earlier. This is even confirmed by the indications I commented upon at the start of this post.

The third house is students, pupils, and people learning things, but in a general and mundane sense, and not in this horary in which a specific teacher inquires of a specific student. The third house cusp here would represent your colleagues or your fellow classmates if you were a student yourself, but not the student about which you inquire specifically. In general teachers are ninth and students third, the axis of dispensing and obtaining knowledge. Here however, the dispenser of knowledge is to be found in the ascendant, for the teacher inquires of the student, and the obtainer of knowledge, therefore, is to be found opposite in the seventh, particularly as the individual is suspected of deception, hence an overt 'enemy'.

The 'suspect', is always the seventh.

The chart seems to depict the student in an unfavourable light, and I suspect that you may find your suspicions confirmed in the first week of October, but let's wait and see.

That'll be the reception between the Sun and Saturn.

Hmm. I must have been drinking.

I mean, that'll be the reception between Mercury and Saturn. Magpie needs to give his head a wobble.

Anyway, the Sun is still the students significator, so there.

Thanks, Magpie. Your explanation of why the seventh house lord represents the student was really good and clear. I learned a lot from it.



I'll let you know what happens.

Hi Magpie, thank you for a thorough and instructive analysis. Welcome to the forum.

Stan

If she is his teacher and he her student, there is really nothing mundane about it. (imo) He would be the 3rd.
I'm relying on traditionalist teaching here as well as modern authors such as Ivy Jacobson. I believe John Frawley also teaches this.

I?m curious about this, because I?m not sure that there is a solid traditional reference to say that students are 3rd house. I don?t have time to check today, but off the top of my head I?d say probably not. This seems more like a modern association than a traditional one.

William Ramesey gives a very clear association between the 9th house and ?all manner of students? (AR., bk II, p.108), but overall I thought that Magpie (welcome to the forum) gave a good account of his/her signification. I would probably have taken the same approach, with the same consideration of the natural significator.

But I also agree with RC that it is wise to be very cautious in this situation. Teacher you have asked your own question and I believe that horaries are much more reliable when there is a 3-way relationship between the querent, universal intelligence, and the astrologer as an independent mediator. Even if the chart appears to point to a guilty student, you need to be certain that this is a truly radical horary, and not just a cosmic mirror of your own suspicions.