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The Papacy & Sexual Abuse Scandals
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: The Papacy & Sexual Abuse Scandals Reply with quote

Over the last few years there have been numerous sexual abuse scandals involving Roman Catholic priests. In particular scandals in the USA, Australia and most recently Ireland. These scandals have seriously damaged the reputation of the Roman Catholic Church in many countries. Not least because it appears the Roman Catholic hierarchy was frequently aware of the perpetrators action but failed to act or relocated the perpetrator in privacy rather than involving the Police.

The issue now seems to have have come home to affect the Papacy itself with allegations now made against Pope Benedict XVI himself that he failed to act effectively in such case reported to him in 1985.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8612457.stm

Its a troubling time for the Papacy and Roman Catholics in many countries. I have therefore put up a few charts that seem worth studying. Firstly, the Aries Ingress chart for the Vatican City. Secondly, the chart of the Vatican state. Thirdly, the natal chart for Pope Benedict XVI. Of course due its proximity the Italian Aries Ingress chart centred on Rome is identical to that of the Vatican city.

Its interesting that the chart has Saturn, Pluto, Mercury and the Sun angular in the chart.




You might also want to check out the chart for the Vatican state which came into legal existence in 1929:



Here is the natal chart of Pope Benedict XVI:



NB: This thread is not an excuse for anti-clerical rants against the Papacy or Roman Catholic Church.
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Last edited by Mark on Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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margherita



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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: The Papacy & Sexual Abuse Scandals Reply with quote

MarkC wrote:
Firstly, the Aries Ingress chart for the Vatican City. Secondly, the chart of the Vatican state. Thirdly, the natal chart for Pope Benedict XVI. Of course due its proximity the Italian Aries Ingress chart centred on Rome is identical to that of the Vatican city.

Its interesting that the chart has Saturn, Pluto, Mercury and the Sun angular in the chart.


I cast another chart for the Ingress at 0:01 Aries (time 6:56 pm) according Albumasar Flores (translated by Ben Dykes)

"Albumasar said you ought first the Lord of the Year, and the knowledge of this matter is known by the hour of the entrance of the Sun into the first minute of the sign of Aries " (page 9)

So Saturn is more in the 12th house and the Sun definitely set in the 6th.

This is for me another case of the planet against its hairesis, Saturn of the day sect being in angle in a night chart.

And Mercury which is planet signifying the Catholic religion (cf. albumasar horoscope of religions) burned from the Sun, secrets.
Both angular planets are not well placed, something to think about.

About the Pope I think that he is a scholar, he is not inclined to keep the reins of the Church.

We had the Vatican state already in the press in the past months because of some gossips about the former director of the Vatican newspaper, it looks like they directly come from Vatican rooms of some notable bishop.

margherita
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I cast another chart for the Ingress at 0:01 Aries (time 6:56 pm) according Albumasar Flores (translated by Ben Dykes)


I looked at this post for a while before the penny finally dropped what you were getting at! Very Happy

Quote:
"Albumasar said you ought first the Lord of the Year, and the knowledge of this matter is known by the hour of the entrance of the Sun into the first minute of the sign of Aries " (page 9)


However, is this just Abu'Mashar or the general medieval approach to ingress charts? I dont have Ben Dykes book on this so would appreciate more on this point.

Also how does Abu'Mashar determine the Lord of the year?

Mark

Here is the ingress chart using the method ascribed to Abu'Mashar


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###



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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't 00° ARI 00' 01'' already be within the first minute? Similarly, 00° ARI 01' is within the first degree of Aries.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will let Margherita answer that one. Wink

Mark
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Deb
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Margherita,

I agree with Kirk, "the entrance of the Sun into the first minute of the sign of Aries" - as soon as the Sun moves out of Pisces, it moves into the first minute of Aries.

In any case the word ingress means 'to enter', so the symbolism is about the first discenable moment that the Sun returns to Aries.

That is my understanding of what Albumasar is saying.

Regards
Deb
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In any case the word ingress means 'to enter', so the symbolism is about the first discenable moment that the Sun returns to Aries.


Phew! Thats a relief. I was worrying I might have to change all the Aries ingress charts on the site. Shocked

Actually I have just found this article by Ben Dykes on delineating an Aries Ingress in the style of Abu'Ma'shar. The Sun in the chart is at 00:00 Aries.

http://www.bendykes.com/articles/tsunami.php

Mark
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margherita



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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkC wrote:
[Actually I have just found this article by Ben Dykes on delineating an Aries Ingress in the style of Abu'Ma'shar. The Sun in the chart is at 00:00 Aries.


Sometimes you ask me questions I have no answer Sad

What Deborah and Kirk say makes sense and on the other hand the first minute of the sign is mentioned; really I don't know at this point.

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GR



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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this has be brought up before, but it is a question of how one numbers.

For we moderns, 00°01' of Aries is already the second minute of arc into Aries, as we start counting from 0 (meaning 00°00'00" to 00°59'59" is the range of the 1st degree of Aries, the second degree starts at 01° Aries); as it was the practice in earlier times to start counting from 1, then 00°01' of Aries would be the first minute of arc.
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margherita



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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in every case, because Albumasar did not write in English, I checked the Latin version in Warburg digital library.

He says "hora introitus solis in primum minutum signis Arietis"-

This it's easy- even for me Sad

the time of the ingress of the Sun in the first minute of the sign of the Aries.

What do you think? difficult matter....

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yuzuru



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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Marguerita

I adjust Janus for 0Aries0m1s as the time of the entrance into the first degree of Aries. But of course the difference is minimal.

If you take Abu Mashar literally, and adjust to 0Aries1min, then the difference can very big, depending of course if a sign of quick ascension is on the horizon.... the difference (between ingress into the first minute or first second of degree) would be about 20 minutes (in time) give or take.
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margherita



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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuzuru wrote:
the difference (between ingress into the first minute or first second of degree) would be about 20 minutes (in time) give or take.


Yes, I noticed this. Anyway I did not want open a Pandora box, (there is something in me inclined to this Smile ).

I just asked, but we can even discuss the chart for 0.00 Aries.

Gabriel's one is an interesting point, because it shows how it's difficult to understand ancients' ways, we always use our modern mind.

Mark?

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Eddy



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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GR wrote:
I think this has be brought up before, but it is a question of how one numbers.

For we moderns, 00°01' of Aries is already the second minute of arc into Aries, as we start counting from 0 (meaning 00°00'00" to 00°59'59" is the range of the 1st degree of Aries, the second degree starts at 01° Aries); as it was the practice in earlier times to start counting from 1, then 00°01' of Aries would be the first minute of arc.
I too think this is the case. Just like there is no historical year zero.

I believe these are the threads where it was discussed:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4464
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4515
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mark?


Yes? If your asking what I think I prefer an approach that makes both practical and philosophical sense to me. The method you attribute to Abu Ma'shar doesn't meet either test for me. I also remain sceptical Abu' Ma'shar really meant a full minute rather than the first second of the first minute. It seems to me the latter approach is the one adopted by Ben Dykes in his demonstration of Abu Ma'shar's ingress technique. However, if you feel passionate about this why not contact Ben Dykes? He is a really nice guy and I am sure he would welcome an erudite question like this.

Mark
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margherita



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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkC wrote:
Quote:
Mark?

However, if you feel passionate about this why not contact Ben Dykes? He is a really nice guy and I am sure he would welcome an erudite question like this.


no, I don't feel such a passion about it Smile

For me, we can cast the chart for 0.00 Aries without any problem.


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