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7 yr itch!
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1369
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe because 7 is considered a particular number in all the traditions, it's called climateric year, or sabbatical.

This is the Old Testament, Deuteronomy, 15,1

"At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release"

But there should be something about them in Plato too.

They are traditionally connected with Saturn.

margherita
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Arihant



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gjiada wrote:


They are traditionally connected with Saturn.

margherita


Saturn's , numerological connection is with number 8!
Rather , Uranus, with its inherent changeability vibes well with Number 7...and this seven year itch syndrome..incidentally , Uranus leaves a sign after 7 years... Leery Leery
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arihant wrote:

Saturn's , numerological connection is with number 8!


Well, strange, because planets known to ancients are seven.

margherita
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Arihant



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gjiada wrote:
Arihant wrote:

Saturn's , numerological connection is with number 8!


Well, strange, because planets known to ancients are seven.

margherita


Though,I cannot say whether, Saturn's (archetype) co-relation with number 8 is very ancient..but it is very apt and nothing strange about it..it is as compatible as Moon association with Number 2 , type of Personalities
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this about "climateric" if it can help.
"Dizionario universale delle arti e delle scienze" by Giuseppe Maria Secondo, Napoli, 1748.

"critical year in which according Astrologers something critical to the native will happen in health and dangerous for him. From the Greek word for step.
The first climateric year is the seventh of the human life, the remaining are multipliers of the first, like 21, 49, 56, 63, 84.
The last ones are called great climateric because it is believed that dangers are nearer.
This is a very old opinion. Aulo Gellio says it derives from Chaldeans, who maybe received it from Plato, whose philosophy is based on numbers, who believed a great virtue in the number 7.
Marco Ficinio gives us the source of this opinion: he said there was an year connected to each planet which influenced the body of the native, each one in its place. Now Saturn being the more malefic planet, every 7 year which belongs to it, was the more dangerous, especially the 63 and the 84..."

margherita
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Arihant



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steven wrote:


Also just writing "very apt" in bold does not make it more apt Rolling Eyes .

Steven


How many seconds one would take to answer which number would best represent Saturn's principle of hard work/delays/late success...
I took it for granted that answer would be 8 , in matter of seconds..

However, I am surprised to see your above comment & as a moderator ... Thumbs down
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's very obvious : 8 consists of connected rings (Are you thinking 'Rings = Saturn'?), 7 only has lines.

It's not only easy, but it's fun! Lala Happy
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Arihant



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steven wrote:

As yet you haven't offered any connection to the number 8
Steven


Respected Steven,
Please accept my thanks ;for your above comments are indeed motivating me to go look ,deeper for the connection.I shall search my book "Kabala of Numbers, By Sepharial , I think he might have given some hints...meanwhile kindly do with following links, I find through goggle:

http://astrology.ygoy.com/number-8-saturn-is-your-ruler/
Number 8 – Saturn is Your Ruler


http://www.kaarmicconnexions.com/Articles.html
these dates total to number 8, the number of Saturn

http://brightstarlights.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/8-8-2008-numerology-and-the-olympics/
((August 8, 2008 8:08 PM Beijing, China

Today, the Olympic games commence in Beijing, China. And thank goodness for the Chinese being bold enough to make a big fuss over having the Opening Ceremony be numerologically-inspired. Obviously over there in China they like the number 8, a lot.

In astrology, the number 8 is associated with the planet Saturn. Saturn is the real no-nonsense school marm of the zodiac. You will get exactly what you deserve, exactly what you have earned, no more, no less= this is the MO of Saturn. But it is all about earning and rewarding and as such it has come to be associated with wealth and prosperity. Certainly those who work very hard, are disciplined, and respect authority will achieve status and material prosperity (right?); this is what Saturn, and China, espouses.

And this is likely the tone we can expect from the Olympics this year. Not only does Saturn play an important role with all of those 8’s in the picture (not only in 8-8-08 but also, 8+8+2+0+0+8= 26=8 ) but also because the chart cast for 8:08 PM, shows Saturn sitting directly in opposition to the ascendant. There is definitely going to be a feeling this year that the “worthier” of the opponents won, that the hardest working (though maybe not most impressive) should be rewarded and that judging be done meticulously and protocol be followed zealously. No Jupiterian feats of bravado and courage, but rather safe and predictable will rule the day.

The other player numerologically and astrologically is 7 and the planet associated with it, Neptune. First of all 8+8=16=7. Second of all, the rising sign for the games is Pisces, the planet associated with Neptune and 7, making Neptune the ruler of the chart.
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Dave M.



Joined: 01 Nov 2008
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...just another innocent bystander here [with apologies to Thomas Merton] with an observation.
...a reminder/informative that 888 is the esoteric/Gnostic number of Christ [not Jesus the man but "The Christ"...as the number for Jesus is 33]
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Arihant



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respected Steven,
You can find Sepharial's book, Kabala Of Numbers in e-format at:
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=2PnAWeg26BEC&dq=kabala+of+numbers&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=YG5NSucanG&sig=fkZPhXHLNm_Z5AcrkPaAn-WDeJ0&hl=en&ei=WsUoS6ilF8qLkAX3z6z7DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false

You can Scroll down to Chapter III , Numerlogy & Chapter IV of Various methods of Kabalism..page 42
Quote:
The Sun 1 , Jupiter 3 and Mars 4 are spiritual numbers. The moon 7, Murcury 5 and Venus 6 are mental numbers ;while Saturm 8 ,Sun 4 and Moon 2 are physical numbers


Further , he commented on Sun /Saturn Opposition, Conjunction on the basis of Numbers got by adding year/name etc..

Hope Sepharial methods can be construed ancient by today's standards.

Steven wrote:
Quote:
People have offered up valuable and pertinant answers. You have ignored it and ridiculed it
If you don't want to pay attention that's great


Who I am to ignore the creditable Astrological Insights!
World is reading it and probaly have formed its own opinion.
Thats the purpose of the whole discussion .
I know,I have not ridiculed anyone , or any of the insights.
And I hope , you have made above comments only to aghast me...for you are very well aware Astrological quest is a continous process , never ending learning , assimilating new ideas...there is hardly a room for fixed thoughts or single track mind!
I am quite thankful of Gjiada contribution and the pain s/he took in compiling her multiple of 7's sabbatical/climatereic nature...but though I do wish , in larger interests , s/he would come-up up with modertn statistical analysis to back up her belief!!
What are the odds of some thing climateric happening after 21 yrs or within a year of completing 21 yrs?
what chance would suggest?
were odd increases for someone with birth number 8?

As for me , in my college days , I have enjoyed a bit of gambling in small fete with the game Lucky 7! ( where 2 dies are thrown..)
No 7 is considered be lucky/fortunate, hopefully , all around the world..I am unable to associate it in any way with Saturn 's principle
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am quite thankful of Gjiada contribution and the pain s/he took in compiling her multiple of 7's sabbatical/climatereic nature...but though I do wish , in larger interests , s/he would come-up up with modertn statistical analysis to back up her belief!! What are the odds of some thing climateric happening after 21 yrs or within a year of completing 21 yrs?


I don't understand this modern religion of statistical analysis and why anyone would want to limit his or her astrological pursuits with it. Actuarial astrology is a sad and dreary activity. Statistics show us the club membership of the common crowd – the crowd of people, things or events we want to be able to comfortably grasp and place. The more interestingly significant and powerful people, things and events are found in the exceptions, the 'stand-alones', rather than in measured and labeled groups. But those are maybe found on the other side of the statistics – the side we should be looking at. In other words, look out and away from the group if you want to find the important action.
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Arihant



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kirk wrote:
Quote:
The more interestingly significant and powerful people, things and events are found in the exceptions, the 'stand-alones', rather than in measured and labeled groups. But those are maybe found on the other side of the statistics – the side we should be looking at. In other words, look out and away from the group if you want to find the important action.


I agree with you in toto, Kirk , but there are limitations we each have..who wouldn't like to be a Child Prodigy..but we often know whether we are mediocre or not...we can do well to investigate or explore our belief system , discriminate superstitions from universal , general ,specific truths / statistical inferences ..but in the end be able to call spade a spade!

I am grateful for your insight and wise words!
Its worth following...
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can imagine some reasons for the number 8 being assigned to Saturn. Some numerological explanations of the number 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc or 2 to the power X, is that it are numbers of manifestation, growing more concrete as the number x increases. For example, after conception the egg cell doubles each time untill it shapes into a human being. I believe I read these explanations in this book some 9 years ago http://www.amazon.com/Working-Astrology-Psychology-Midpoints-Astrocartography/dp/1873948034 )

Although cyclically one might tend to attribute the number 7 to Saturn, note that due to the eccentricity of Saturn's orbit the time for Saturn to square transit a natal position can vary between 6 years 8 months and 8 years 1 month. This is from heliocentric view, geocentric view can add some months to or subtract some months from these periods.

Averagely 1/4th of the Saturn period is 29,46/4 = ca. 7y 4m so I wouldn't go for the strict 7 either (provided Saturn is the cause of this 7 year itch).
After 28 years the number deviates 1,5 years from the average Saturn return. It's like using 360 days as a year, this will deviate one whole year after some 70 periods of 360 years.

I think there's nothing wrong with statistics.
Quote:
Statistics show us the club membership of the common crowd – the crowd of people, things or events we want to be able to comfortably grasp and place. The more interestingly significant and powerful people, things and events are found in the exceptions, the 'stand-alones', rather than in measured and labeled groups.
Statistics are rather used to find significant characteristics to distinguish the special from the common by using a certain group compared to an average group.

E.g. if by some astrological rule one is said to have violent intentions with Mars in a certain sign, then this should show in say violent criminals in prison and be absent or average in 'normal'/common groups.

Finally it leads to the conundrum if astrological rules can't be tested, then they couldn't be made either. Until now statistical research (like those of Gauquelin) has given results which are mostly negative for astrology. That doesn't need to be a problem. I think it only means that we should alter our view towards astrology.

I've been googling for statistics for divorces and found several "median durations of marriages", varying from a few years to 12 years. However communication in a marriage may have ended long before divorce, wich is just a formal end by law on paper.
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Arihant



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respected Eddy,
You have given a very well balanced view and analysis of Saturn's cycle of squaring its own position.
Your contribution is very much appreciated, and always well- sought after! Smile

. Use of Statistics tools are a meaningful tool to arrive at a certain inference.., but as Respected Kirk has observed:
Quote:
Actuarial astrology is a sad and dreary activity

So is Statistical research...difficult and dreary and painstaking.

At astrodienst forum , I have tried to discuss its methodology & mathematical formulation , (and received good insights from Waybread though...)

http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1257599017

Kind regards.
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Arihant,

I was a bit distracted by the statistics issue and I forgot something about that symbolism. It's quite a long time I've read about numerology but if I remember well the number 4 was related to earth matters, like the 4 colures, the 4 seasons (at least for the temperate zones on Earth) and the 4 main compass directions. 8 was said to be the more concretization of it. 8 is also 2*2*2 which is the cube of 2. A cube shape is also related with concrete earthy matters. Saturn is also seen as a concrete planet, agriculture, death, bones etc.

So there's both to say for the 7 and the 8. Perhaps a good compromise would be 7.5 which *4 is 30 globally Saturn's cycle Smile .

About statistics I haven't made up my mind yet. I think they have a lot of value, but the outcome depends much on what you choose. One of Gauquelin's researches was about transits and death. The results were negative. However for me it wouldn't be a reason to dismiss transits as a whole but simply that transits don't necessarily can be related to death.

John Addey once wrote something like that astrological researches were aimed at checking the 'frills' (like sun-sign delineations) but that it doesn't mean that the whole of astrology is useless.
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