Well thanks for clearing that one up Kirk

Gadbury keeps it very simple. I left the chapter notes behind in the office but the 3rd house is brethren,kindred and neighbours. By kindred he means relatives, members of the same tribe &c.

The 11th he plainly describes as friends and their condition. Charts have to read in their entirety of course but he says that the nature of a planet in the 11th, or its ruler describes the nature of your friends.

Matt

Well thanks for clearing that one up Kirk

Thank you for noticing that I was pointing out that we don't seem to be in any position of clarity on this matter.

Gadbury keeps it very simple. I left the chapter notes behind in the office but the 3rd house is brethren,kindred and neighbours. By kindred he means relatives, members of the same tribe &c.

The 11th he plainly describes as friends and their condition.

I adore simplicity. It makes life so easy and ... simple. But we've seen through Deb's book and Paulus that the simplicity just isn't there. After becoming aware of earlier practice involving the 3rd house, to now unquestioningly use only the 11th for friends is like offering simplicity on a don't-think-about-it silver platter to those who like and want simplicity. Something needs to be checked into here. The 3rd house was there regarding friendship and then it just went away. Why? Should we in any way feel comforted and reassured by what Gadbury said in the 17th century? Is it really about Gadbury or Lilly or whoever, or is it more truly a matter of what now gives us a sense of certainty and rightness after the passage of years and accepted tradition? You know, do we just like to be clearly told 'This is the way it is"?

I was only quoting Gadbury because I happened to be reading him at the time and was not claiming he is the last word.Good thing this was not started on the trad forum so you can't tell me off for using moderns like him He was writing a book to teach people so he at least gives learners a clear start and if someone asks a question we must assume that they are learners who need something to start with.

Looking at a typical early authority I see Al-Biruni assigns relatives and friends to House 3 but then includes both friends and enemies to House 11

Matt