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For those of you who have a Planet in the House of its Joy..
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a wee spanner in the works but we are all chatting as if we are using the same house systems! I guess we are probably not?

I have Mars in the 6th/ Saturn in the 12th -Placidus/Regiomonatus

I have Mars in the 5th/Saturn in the 11th Alcabitius/Koch/Whole sign

Take your pick.

Mark
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GR



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 451
Location: USA

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkC wrote:
Just a wee spanner in the works but we are all chatting as if we are using the same house systems! I guess we are probably not?

I have Mars in the 6th/ Saturn in the 12th -Placidus/Regiomonatus

I have Mars in the 5th/Saturn in the 11th Alcabitius/Koch/Whole sign

Take your pick.

Mark


Just use the real one, Mark. Razz I'd say by whole signs, neither planet is in its joy. The basic idea from the Hellenistic works is that a planet in its joy gets to act as if it is 'fit for business', basically it behaves if it were angular, so if happens to be in a cadent sign, this can be mostly ignored.
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Olivia



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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got Jupiter in 11 by whole sign, but it may be one of those situations of 'being still alive to tell the tales', more than something that's brought outright good in my life. It is retrograde, which might be part of it, but still rings in at 11 on the essential dignities scale if we're counting.
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GR



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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olivia wrote:
I've got Jupiter in 11 by whole sign, but it may be one of those situations of 'being still alive to tell the tales', more than something that's brought outright good in my life. It is retrograde, which might be part of it, but still rings in at 11 on the essential dignities scale if we're counting.


Well, the retrogradation would cause the planet to often 'take back' its significations, though depending on the planet it might be a good thing. Basically, benefics would take but then give something in return, while malefics would just take. Other planetary conditions, of course, still need apply.
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Labalance



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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to get off topic, but in whole signs if your ascendant is at 29 degrees, does that mean the first house is separate from the ascendant? In Placidus my mercury is in my first house, but it's in the second with the whole signs.
Since it is retrograde and square mars it does have problems, although it seems people see me as intellectual.
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Olivia



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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. If you have 29 Taurus rising, by whole sign your first house is all of Taurus, with 29 marked off as the ascendant. Same as if you had 1 Taurus or 15 Taurus rising.

Whatever sign the ascendant is in, that whole sign becomes the first house, and on it goes round the wheel. The midheaven point is marked off, just like the ascendant is, but doesn't always fall in the tenth house. The ascending sign will ALWAYS be the first house, though.
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Labalance



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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Olivia! That means that planets that fell in the 12th house previously would now be in the first when you interpret. So my Uranus which was at 3 degrees Virgo in the 12th is now in my first house, though not on my ascendant, correct? It also means that mercury is now in the second house instead of the first, so I guess it's no longer in the house of joy. The strange thing is I've always identified with my mars in the 10th (problems with authority figures) but whole signs move it into the 11th which I don't find fits me as much.
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Vindex



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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Sun in 9, Moon in 3, Saturn in 12.

i am person of extremes Very Happy
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Vindex



Joined: 10 Jan 2009
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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GR wrote:
MarkC wrote:
Just a wee spanner in the works but we are all chatting as if we are using the same house systems! I guess we are probably not?

I have Mars in the 6th/ Saturn in the 12th -Placidus/Regiomonatus

I have Mars in the 5th/Saturn in the 11th Alcabitius/Koch/Whole sign

Take your pick.

Mark


Just use the real one, Mark. Razz I'd say by whole signs, neither planet is in its joy. The basic idea from the Hellenistic works is that a planet in its joy gets to act as if it is 'fit for business', basically it behaves if it were angular, so if happens to be in a cadent sign, this can be mostly ignored.


could this implicate that Saturn in 12 is not so bad as he would be in some other house ?

It is very hard matter to discuss because some use Koch some Placidus.

I can t find my sister in my chart if I look on Placidus.

I have Jupiter in 3 Aries - male sign male planet, but i have sister. Further more Mars as ruler goes to eclipse 0 south node 90 Uranus - my brother would be born dead at place. But i have only sister, my mom didn t have any miscarriage.
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GR



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Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vindex wrote:

could this implicate that Saturn in 12 is not so bad as he would be in some other house ?


I wouldn't say it's as simple as all that. Saturn in the 12th would mean that Saturn gets to act, where otherwise the planets in the 12th would be maltreated, as the domicile ruler acts inappropriately as a host, and would have trouble effecting their significations.

Vindex wrote:

It is very hard matter to discuss because some use Koch some Placidus.


Well, that's the problem right there! Tongue Out
But seriously, I think all this confounding about differing house systems tends to lead one very astray, if not into skepticism itself.

Vindex wrote:

I can t find my sister in my chart if I look on Placidus.

I have Jupiter in 3 Aries - male sign male planet, but i have sister. Further more Mars as ruler goes to eclipse 0 south node 90 Uranus - my brother would be born dead at place. But i have only sister, my mom didn t have any miscarriage.


The determination of siblings is a bit complicated and totally escapes me at the moment. Going with Jupiter in Aries (in the 3rd I assume) as being automatically a brother is a bit simplistic. For a general take on this, usually Venus and the Moon gets sisters, though I forget which get younger or older sisters, if there is granularity on this topic.

That and take a eraser to Uranus while you're at it. Tongue Out
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Gunhilde



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Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 3rd house Moon (Placidus).. I'm not sure whether it has any effect or not, as it's in an out-of-sign conjunction with Saturn (4 degree orb) and an out-of-sign opposition to Jupiter (2 degree orb). I'm considered 'gifted' (a dubious thing) and writing has always been a very strong point with me; I can very easily convey things in writing (like feelings) that I find impossible to do verbally. This might be the Saturn influence, as I enjoy 'structured' thinking, and writing for me is easier because I can think about it first and then convey the feelings in a structured way. 'Off the cuff' speaking is anathema for me....but I have a 12th house Mercury (in Capricorn!), so my 'structured thinking' may in fact come from this.

Gunhilde
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jac



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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olivia wrote:
Okay. If you have 29 Taurus rising, by whole sign your first house is all of Taurus, with 29 marked off as the ascendant. Same as if you had 1 Taurus or 15 Taurus rising.

Whatever sign the ascendant is in, that whole sign becomes the first house, and on it goes round the wheel. The midheaven point is marked off, just like the ascendant is, but doesn't always fall in the tenth house. The ascending sign will ALWAYS be the first house, though.


Whoa, Olivia- I've got 29 Sag rising Asc, but the entire 1st house is Cap. Are you considering interceptions here?

In re: to 11th house Jupiter, my whole life I've had the 'gift' of being able to have such familiar rapport w/total strangers, that whomever is 'in tow' remarks; "where'd you meet them?" -People I don't know make admissions to me in the freezer aisle of the supermarket, etc... it's kinda neat. It also seems to make me appear places at seemingly auspicious times for others. Occasionally I indulge in wandering. Peculiar, but in a good way. It's in Scorpio, btw.

As far as that 1st house Merc? That's fun too. Sometimes, I won't even know what's to be revealed till it comes out of my mouth. Unnerving. It's caused others from time to time to give me more credit than I've deserved! I'm able to communicate w/people who don't speak the language (or either of us poorly). Expression & communication are fun. I especially enjoy when I have to work at it.

I'm surprised Mars in the 5th isn't considered a 'Joy', it has been to me. That's in Taurus. A smile should suffice.

I hope I've been helpful![/i]


Last edited by jac on Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gunhilde



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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In re: to 11th house Jupiter, my whole life I've had the 'gift' of being able to have such familiar rapport w/total strangers, that whomever is 'in tow' remarks; "where'd you meet them?" -People I don't know make admissions to me in the freezer aisle of the supermarket, etc... it's kinda neat. It also seems to make me appear places at seemingly auspicious times for others. Occasionally I indulge in wandering. Peculiar, but in a good way. It's in Scorpio, btw.


This is interesting. I have the Sun in the 11th and Jupiter in the 9th (so they are 'transposed', I guess, in terms of joys), and I have the same sort of experiences: strangers tell me things in the freezer aisles, etc. It's useful in my line of work!

Gunhilde
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kerenhappuch



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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going a little off-topic here into retrogrades/stations so I do apologise, but it didn't seem worth a new thread Smile

Olivia:

Quote:
It is retrograde, which might be part of it, but still rings in at 11 on the essential dignities scale if we're counting.


Retrograde planets tend to "shoot the wrong way", as Frawley has it! Generally speaking, they do not provide positive results. I have found that it is often a case of "taking back its significations" as GR put it: something happens which appears good at the start, and then it is either taken away, or turns nasty.

A similar interpretation seems to be true for stationed planets, from what I have experienced. A person I know has Jupiter in the 7th - Great! you might think. But it's stationed. And in Taurus, so even more "stuck" (and lacking essential dignity), as Taurus is a fixed earth sign noted for its stubbornness and immovability. It has brought mainly malefic results, through romantic relationships which have ended up as various combinations of unpleasantries, from alcoholism through "he's married but..." right the way to verbal and (in one case) physical abuse. Certainly an example of a planet "taking back its promises", or perhaps even "fulfilling the promise, then twisting/destroying it".

Back to the topic: I have found one example of Mars in the 6th, in Capricorn. Mars (21 Cap) opposes Mercury in Cancer (29 Can), while the Sun is very wide (4 Can). Sextile Jupiter (22 Pisces). Mars is retrograde, -0'11 per day and accelerating. This chap's immediate persona is most decidedly un-Martian, the Moon in Pisces most likely ensures he could never be He-Man! He does seem very well-balanced in his Martian qualities such as assertion and confidence however; not the entirely wet weekend which would be suggested by the Sun/Moon signs (no offence to forum members of those signs; I myself have the Lights in Pisces/Cancer Smile ). So perhaps Mars in the 6th is able to act more strongly, almost as if it were angular, as mentioned by GR. The exaltation probably helps, too.

Keren
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Gunhilde



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Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*chortle* "Wet weekend". I suppose mine (Sag Sun/Aries Moon) would be "a real scorcher".

Just a note on the retrogrades: I have Saturn Rx in my 3rd (OOS conj. with Luna). I would definitely agree with 'shoots the wrong way'. Saturn Rx so close to my Moon made me, especially when I was young, almost morbidly sensitive. I had the misfortune to have a (what I perceived at the time to be) hypercritical grandmother, and I took EVERYTHING she said to me on board. It's taken a few years of therapy to get rid of the feeling that I am perpetually incompetent. If the Moon were in the 3rd by herself, I have a feeling I would have a far less sensitive nature, at least in the negative sense, although the thinking/feeling combination of Moon in 3rd would still be there. I had to learn to grow a thick skin.

GH Smile
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