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Just a wee spanner in the works but we are all chatting as if we are using the same house systems! I guess we are probably not?

I have Mars in the 6th/ Saturn in the 12th -Placidus/Regiomonatus

I have Mars in the 5th/Saturn in the 11th Alcabitius/Koch/Whole sign

Take your pick.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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MarkC wrote:Just a wee spanner in the works but we are all chatting as if we are using the same house systems! I guess we are probably not?

I have Mars in the 6th/ Saturn in the 12th -Placidus/Regiomonatus

I have Mars in the 5th/Saturn in the 11th Alcabitius/Koch/Whole sign

Take your pick.

Mark
Just use the real one, Mark. :P I'd say by whole signs, neither planet is in its joy. The basic idea from the Hellenistic works is that a planet in its joy gets to act as if it is 'fit for business', basically it behaves if it were angular, so if happens to be in a cadent sign, this can be mostly ignored.
Gabe

18
I've got Jupiter in 11 by whole sign, but it may be one of those situations of 'being still alive to tell the tales', more than something that's brought outright good in my life. It is retrograde, which might be part of it, but still rings in at 11 on the essential dignities scale if we're counting.

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Olivia wrote:I've got Jupiter in 11 by whole sign, but it may be one of those situations of 'being still alive to tell the tales', more than something that's brought outright good in my life. It is retrograde, which might be part of it, but still rings in at 11 on the essential dignities scale if we're counting.
Well, the retrogradation would cause the planet to often 'take back' its significations, though depending on the planet it might be a good thing. Basically, benefics would take but then give something in return, while malefics would just take. Other planetary conditions, of course, still need apply.
Gabe

20
Not to get off topic, but in whole signs if your ascendant is at 29 degrees, does that mean the first house is separate from the ascendant? In Placidus my mercury is in my first house, but it's in the second with the whole signs.
Since it is retrograde and square mars it does have problems, although it seems people see me as intellectual.

21
Okay. If you have 29 Taurus rising, by whole sign your first house is all of Taurus, with 29 marked off as the ascendant. Same as if you had 1 Taurus or 15 Taurus rising.

Whatever sign the ascendant is in, that whole sign becomes the first house, and on it goes round the wheel. The midheaven point is marked off, just like the ascendant is, but doesn't always fall in the tenth house. The ascending sign will ALWAYS be the first house, though.

22
Thanks Olivia! That means that planets that fell in the 12th house previously would now be in the first when you interpret. So my Uranus which was at 3 degrees Virgo in the 12th is now in my first house, though not on my ascendant, correct? It also means that mercury is now in the second house instead of the first, so I guess it's no longer in the house of joy. The strange thing is I've always identified with my mars in the 10th (problems with authority figures) but whole signs move it into the 11th which I don't find fits me as much.

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GR wrote:
MarkC wrote:Just a wee spanner in the works but we are all chatting as if we are using the same house systems! I guess we are probably not?

I have Mars in the 6th/ Saturn in the 12th -Placidus/Regiomonatus

I have Mars in the 5th/Saturn in the 11th Alcabitius/Koch/Whole sign

Take your pick.

Mark
Just use the real one, Mark. :P I'd say by whole signs, neither planet is in its joy. The basic idea from the Hellenistic works is that a planet in its joy gets to act as if it is 'fit for business', basically it behaves if it were angular, so if happens to be in a cadent sign, this can be mostly ignored.
could this implicate that Saturn in 12 is not so bad as he would be in some other house ?

It is very hard matter to discuss because some use Koch some Placidus.

I can t find my sister in my chart if I look on Placidus.

I have Jupiter in 3 Aries - male sign male planet, but i have sister. Further more Mars as ruler goes to eclipse 0 south node 90 Uranus - my brother would be born dead at place. But i have only sister, my mom didn t have any miscarriage.
As long as you remember me I ll never be too far

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Vindex wrote: could this implicate that Saturn in 12 is not so bad as he would be in some other house ?
I wouldn't say it's as simple as all that. Saturn in the 12th would mean that Saturn gets to act, where otherwise the planets in the 12th would be maltreated, as the domicile ruler acts inappropriately as a host, and would have trouble effecting their significations.
Vindex wrote: It is very hard matter to discuss because some use Koch some Placidus.
Well, that's the problem right there! :-T
But seriously, I think all this confounding about differing house systems tends to lead one very astray, if not into skepticism itself.
Vindex wrote:
I can t find my sister in my chart if I look on Placidus.

I have Jupiter in 3 Aries - male sign male planet, but i have sister. Further more Mars as ruler goes to eclipse 0 south node 90 Uranus - my brother would be born dead at place. But i have only sister, my mom didn t have any miscarriage.
The determination of siblings is a bit complicated and totally escapes me at the moment. Going with Jupiter in Aries (in the 3rd I assume) as being automatically a brother is a bit simplistic. For a general take on this, usually Venus and the Moon gets sisters, though I forget which get younger or older sisters, if there is granularity on this topic.

That and take a eraser to Uranus while you're at it. :-T
Gabe

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I have a 3rd house Moon (Placidus).. I'm not sure whether it has any effect or not, as it's in an out-of-sign conjunction with Saturn (4 degree orb) and an out-of-sign opposition to Jupiter (2 degree orb). I'm considered 'gifted' (a dubious thing) and writing has always been a very strong point with me; I can very easily convey things in writing (like feelings) that I find impossible to do verbally. This might be the Saturn influence, as I enjoy 'structured' thinking, and writing for me is easier because I can think about it first and then convey the feelings in a structured way. 'Off the cuff' speaking is anathema for me....but I have a 12th house Mercury (in Capricorn!), so my 'structured thinking' may in fact come from this.

Gunhilde

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Olivia wrote:Okay. If you have 29 Taurus rising, by whole sign your first house is all of Taurus, with 29 marked off as the ascendant. Same as if you had 1 Taurus or 15 Taurus rising.

Whatever sign the ascendant is in, that whole sign becomes the first house, and on it goes round the wheel. The midheaven point is marked off, just like the ascendant is, but doesn't always fall in the tenth house. The ascending sign will ALWAYS be the first house, though.
Whoa, Olivia- I've got 29 Sag rising Asc, but the entire 1st house is Cap. Are you considering interceptions here?

In re: to 11th house Jupiter, my whole life I've had the 'gift' of being able to have such familiar rapport w/total strangers, that whomever is 'in tow' remarks; "where'd you meet them?" -People I don't know make admissions to me in the freezer aisle of the supermarket, etc... it's kinda neat. It also seems to make me appear places at seemingly auspicious times for others. Occasionally I indulge in wandering. Peculiar, but in a good way. It's in Scorpio, btw.

As far as that 1st house Merc? That's fun too. Sometimes, I won't even know what's to be revealed till it comes out of my mouth. Unnerving. It's caused others from time to time to give me more credit than I've deserved! I'm able to communicate w/people who don't speak the language (or either of us poorly). Expression & communication are fun. I especially enjoy when I have to work at it.

I'm surprised Mars in the 5th isn't considered a 'Joy', it has been to me. That's in Taurus. A smile should suffice.

I hope I've been helpful![/i]
Last edited by jac on Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.