New Challenge

1
Below are five charts. The outer planets are missing as are details regarding date, time and location. This is done to thoroughly disguise the charts. I will not reveal gender either as it is irrelevant. One of these charts belongs to a murderer. The other four are not murderers. The other four are charts from my files and may be famous or unknown. Even the murderer is probably not well known.

So which one is the murderer? Please post your findings and give astrological reasons for your selection. Reasons for rejecting some charts are welcome, but not necessary. But if two charts have similar conditions (say the same aspect) you might to discuss why you picked one and not the other.

The non-murderers charts were chosen at random with no regard to angles, or planetary configurations. Don't read into the selection.

Have fun.



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By tciii

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Tom

PS I am not claiming that this is even possible with astrology. I just thought it would be fun to try. I look forward to the responses.
Last edited by Tom on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

7
Maybe chart No.1.

Chart is mostly Choleric. Asc is in wild part of Sagittarius. Jupiter Lord 1. in square with Mars from 7th with very bad receptions. Also Mars on North Node.
Mercury Lord 7. is between sextile of Mars and Saturn and Saturn is Lord of turned 8th, from 7th.

8
I just realized that all these charts have the part of fortune calculated the same way whether they are day or night charts. In other words the formula is not reversed. What is depicted as the part of fortune for the night charts is actually the part of spirit for those who reverse.

Next time I'll get this straight.

Tom

9
Well, let?s try it. I will probably condemn Tom?s mother to a life in prison, but gladly for everybody I don?t work for the penal system !

Chart 1 - I don?t think so, mercury is ruler of the 9th in its own sign. Sun is not afflicted, Jupiter is angular and sextile Spirit.

Chart 2 - It is possible! Venus and moon has rights over the cusp of the 9th and they are in the 12th house. Sun is besieged by mercury (ruler of 12th), saturn and mars.

Chart 3 - Jupiter and venus have rights on the 9th, and venus is corrupted, Jupiter is also joined to mercury retrograde (ruler of the 12th). Jupiter is applying to square saturn. Sun is square to Mars. Not sure, but possible.

Chart 4 - With that venus exalted on the 9th, I don?t think so !

Chart 5 - Sun is besieged between a trine with saturn and mercury (ruler of 12th). But Jupiter is in the ASC and exalted, moon is joined to Jupiter, Saturn is the dispositor of sun, so I don?t think it will do.

So I think it will be chart 2 or 3. I may be completely wrong, of course. They are both melancholic-phleugmatic, that are not that prone to action. But, if they did do, then I would think that they killed someone close to them, due to something like jealously, and in a cold way.
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com

10
On the 2nd chart, antiscia of Mercury on 2nd falls conjunct Mars on 5th. Mercury rules 12th, and Venus being posited in it's fall could present a link to some twisted pleasures. Also, Venus is the almuten of the chart.

Mars rules 8th by quadrant system, and Venus rules it by whole sign (in this case, both could be revealing). I'd say that the killed was probably the wife.

About the 3rd, which is very suspicious as well, I'll make a bet. Since Saturn on 8th is on Aquarius, I'd say it is not the one we look for. I'm not too confident, as the almuten is the Moon (emotions) and She can not see Saturn nor Mars, and their influence comes to her through the stellium in Scorpio in a very corrupted, emotional way. The moment Mars conjunct Saturn, we could expect some nasty things, but I'll hold my horses on this assumption solely because of Saturn's essential dignity. If a killer, the killed were close, like pointed by Yuzuru (family or wife).

So, my bet is on the 2nd one.

Ps: I found the first to be suspicious as well, if you look by whole sign we can see both Mars and Saturn in Cancer going conjunct. And the ruler of 9th becomes the Sun, peregrine. If looked closely, there are some nasty things there as well, like the opposition of Moon and Venus.

I'd rule out 4th and 5th charts.

11
Hello
This is very interesting, opinions seem to be focusing on the 2nd chart.
I'd guess so too, but I don't have the experience to justify this in terms of Western traditional astrology.
In Indian astrology, Venus becomes malefic at 45? or more from the Sun, and it's nearly there in this one (41?+), much closer to Sun in the others. I've noticed a wide distance from Sun in several murderer charts.
In this chart, Ascendant is almost certainly sidereal Virgo, so Venus is whole-sign ruler of II, house of death for Indian (along with VIII). Mercury ruler of I is in II, so this dubious Venus is its dispositor. Mars is ruler of VIII in VI (badly placed and so perhaps "corrupted") and by whole signs closely opposes the moon and almost certainly Venus too (though by wide orb). Jupiter benefic ruler of IV and VII is closely aspected (trine, classic aspect for nodes) by North Node, so can't help much.
Chart 3 looks OK, with cluster of planets, including probably sidereal ruler of I, in V. Saturn ruler VIII is well placed in VIII in its own sign (trop. Aquarius, probably sid. Capricorn).
Chart 5 could be problematic with Jupiter retrograde ruler of tropical VI on ascendant, but sidereally it's probably ruler of VII and X. Probable sidereal ascendant is Gemini, so ruler Mercury would be in VIII with Sun and Venus, but ruler of VIII Saturn is well placed and "comfortable" in its own sign (probably sidereal Capricorn) in VIII.
In both charts 3 and 5, probable sidereal ruler of II Moon is in III (co-ruler of death in house of life-force in some Indian manuals), with additional minor affliction in chart 5 from loose conjunction Moon-North node in III (i.e. sidereal Leo: probably, depending on date of chart).
So I'd guess chart 2 is the answer, with 5 a trailing second choice.
Graham

12
Went at this by looking to see who's Asc and Asc ruler was most afflicted; not sure if it's the correct approach and I've probably got it wrong but Chart #4 actually looks the worst to me.

Mercury with Saturn both square Moon in and ruling 1st and trine Mars; profound (Saturn), subtle (Mercury) and combative (Mars) intellect but malign (square). Saturn and Mars are both applying to radix Asc.

The Mercury/Saturn conj is disposited and sextile an exalted Venus in an evil house (8th, which is also ruled by Saturn) giving the mind an amorous bent, with sextile of Mars adding lust.

Sun elevated and exalted trine Moon in 1st, person has a high opinion of himself increased and made malign by square from an exalted Mars from an evil place.

Chart # 1 Saturn and Mars conj in 7th square Asc ruler Jupiter and opposed to 1st but averse to the radix Asc.

Chart # 2 - Saturn and Mars both aspect Venus Asc ruler in the 12th but Venus is separating from them and both malefics are averse to the radix Asc.

Chart #3 - Saturn and Mars are averse to the Asc and to Moon, Asc ruler

Chart # 5 - Saturn and Mars are averse to the Asc; Moon, Asc ruler, is applying to square of Mars and separating from square of Saturn; but it is also mutually applying to a sextile of Jupiter conj Asc