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Should we buy the house? Should we increase our offer?

 
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lottie



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 14
Location: London, UK

Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 6:11 pm    Post subject: Should we buy the house? Should we increase our offer? Reply with quote

Chart cast on 2 May 2004 at 18.09 BST in London. Regio houses.

I have 19 Libra rising so we are signified by Venus at 22ge06 in 9th. In OK condition, but in a cadent house.

The seller is Mars at 27ge03 also in the 9th. In MR with Mercury which is conj descendant in 7th house - seller is in a stronger position.

The house is signified by 4th cusp 25cp55, Saturn is at 9cn01 in 9th. We are in MR with Saturn by triplicity indicating our liking for the house. Saturn is in detriment and in a cadent house. As house is ruled by a malefic - this indicates that it won't be good for us.

Our money is Mars and seller's money is Venus - does this signify that we can co-operate?

Venus and Mars are in an opposition to Pluto, which is separating, but Venus will turn retrograde in two weeks opposing Pluto again and then a third time as it turns direct once again - this looks very ominous is it a warning against buying?

Venus (us) will conjunct Mars in 5 degrees - this would indicate a 'yes' answer to "should we buy the house", but the opposition between Venus (us) and Mars (the seller and our money) looks like a warning against buying.

Moons aspects (moon also represents the price) - we have made a lowish offer - indicated by moon in 12th, but as it moves on the conjunct the Ascendant this indicates that the price should only increase slightly before it becomes too high?

Moon's aspects are as follows:

Conj Asc

Opp Mercury

Sextile Pluto

Trine Venus (us and seller's money) = yes

Trine Mars (the seller and our money) = yes

Moon and Saturn are in MR by sign and exaltation - does this ameliorate the malefic influence of Saturn ruler of the 4th representing the house?

I'm really confused - any input would be very appreciated Confused

Lottie

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Pete



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 301
Location: Kinnelon, New Jersey, USA

Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: Should we buy the house? Should we increase our offer? Reply with quote

lottie wrote:

The house is signified by 4th cusp 25cp55, Saturn is at 9cn01 in 9th. We are in MR with Saturn by triplicity indicating our liking for the house.

Are you refering to the Moon and Saturn here? If so, there is a strong mixed reception, yes, via exaltation and dignity.

Saturn is in detriment and in a cadent house. As house is ruled by a malefic - this indicates that it won't be good for us.

Yes, particularly since Saturn is in its fall in Cancer, and that makes it even more malicious ~ if you can use such an adjective to describe a house! The mixed reception with the Moon may indicate you can improve the property but you have to remember that the Moon is peregrine in the 12th house, and it doesn't look as though you would be in a position to do so.

Our money is Mars and seller's money is Venus - does this signify that we can co-operate?

At first glance it would appear so, since it looks like Venus will conjoin Mars, but as you say below, Venus is about to go retro', and besides, before that happens Mars ( the seller ) moves out of Gemini and enters Cancer, so the seller is about to undergo a change of status, and not for the better by the looks of it. He'll still be in his own terms, but he moves into his fall. Not good for him, or your money for that matter!

Venus and Mars are in an opposition to Pluto, which is separating, but Venus will turn retrograde in two weeks opposing Pluto again and then a third time as it turns direct once again - this looks very ominous is it a warning against buying?

Your significator is about to turn retro' shortly after the significator of your money enters its fall. To me this simply states that you are going to change your mind and back out of the deal.

Moon and Saturn are in MR by sign and exaltation - does this amelioratethe malefic influence of Saturn ruler of the 4th representing the house?

There are various opinions on this but my feeling is that a peregrine planet in its fall can neither help, nor be helped by another peregrine planet ~ especially if it is in the 12th house. It's like expecting two homeless people to be able to help each other simply by swapping park-benches and newspapers: they may have a slightly better view of the park and something different to read, but ~ so what? They're still cadent.

I'm really confused - any input would be very appreciated Confused

Lottie


Well Lottie, that's my little bit of input for what it's worth, and I hope it's helpful.
[ I'm not sure I've got the hang of this 'quoting' thing yet, so I apologise if it looks all over the place...]
Cheers....
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lottie



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 14
Location: London, UK

Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pete

Thank you very much indeed for your analysis.

Lilly's horary about buying the houses of Mr B also has Saturn in Cancer signifying the houses he wished to buy and although he says he didn't regret the purchase, he does say he made a poor deal.

I was having such difficulty with understanding the chart because the positive aspects from Moon (the action and the 'price') to Venus (us and seller's money) and Mars (seller and our money) seemed to throw a spanner in the works. I now see that debilitated significators are more important than what the moon is showing.

Thanks again.

Lottie
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Pete



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 301
Location: Kinnelon, New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="lottie"]Hi Pete

Thank you very much indeed for your analysis.

Lilly's horary about buying the houses of Mr B also has Saturn in Cancer signifying the houses he wished to buy and although he says he didn't regret the purchase, he does say he made a poor deal.

Hi Lottie,
C.A. page 219 shows this horary with Saturn in Sagittarius, retro', and Venus, Lilly's sig in detriment in Aries making an applying trine to it. I still maintain that a good aspect from a weak significator cannot possibly produce the desired result. Weak is weak, after all! He even fudged the rules by turning the applying square from the Moon to Saturn into a trine by saying they were in signs of long ascension.
Lilly really had to jump through hoops to close that deal. He had to borrow a lot of money and rely on the good aegis of the seller's daughter to ward off a competitor. He said he never regreted the purchase though, but I think that in today's world one has to be a lot more practical about financial considerations. Besides, Lilly said that Jupiter, the lord of his Part of Fortune was sextile his Sun and about to enter exaltation in Cancer, so he was confident of procuring the money, and so he did. You have no such configuration in this horary, so that's something else to take into account, I think.

I was having such difficulty with understanding the chart because the positive aspects from Moon (the action and the 'price') to Venus (us and seller's money) and Mars (seller and our money) seemed to throw a spanner in the works. I now see that debilitated significators are more important than what the moon is showing.

Lilly's aphorism 31 on page 301 of C.A. is always worth bearing in mind if the main significators are not strong and applying to each other by good aspect. He ignored that one as well in the 'Mr B's Houses' horary!

Thanks again.

You're very welcome. Keep us informed, ok?
--
Pete
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lottie



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 14
Location: London, UK

Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pete

Thank you again for your input and for the speed of your response.

Apologies for the misrepresentation of Lilly's chart (I was too lazy to get the book out!) - the gist was similar 'though wasn't it?!!!

We are waiting to hear whether the vendor will accept our lowish offer, but the chart says DON'T BUY, wouldn't you say?

Inherent in our question SHOULD we buy the house is whether it is a financially and emotionally sound idea - and a debilitated malefic as significator screams NO do you think?

Or would you say that peregrine Venus as our significator never managing to conjunct Mars (seller's significator) before Mars changes signs takes precedence?

For example, should I ask the question about another house and the 4th is weak, does that warn against that particular house?

Hope you aren't bored with all these questions!

Regards

Lottie
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Pete



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 301
Location: Kinnelon, New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pete

Hi Lottie

[Thank you again for your input and for the speed of your response.
Apologies for the misrepresentation of Lilly's chart (I was too lazy to get the book out!) - the gist was similar 'though wasn't it?!!! ]

In the sense of a weak Saturn ruling the 4th, yes I'd say the gist was similar.

[ We are waiting to hear whether the vendor will accept our lowish offer, but the chart says DON'T BUY, wouldn't you say? ]

I think the least I'd say would be be very careful and make sure your long-term financial situation is secure before you sign on the dotted line. That Mars, ruling your 2nd house of income is about to take a bit of a nose-dive into it's Fall.

[ Inherent in our question SHOULD we buy the house is whether it is a financially and emotionally sound idea - and a debilitated malefic as significator screams NO do you think? ]

The ruler of your second house certainly isn't in a very good condition, apart from being in its own terms, but as I said it's about to enter its Fall which puts even more stress on it. ( I use Dorothean triplicity rulerships as they make more sense, so I don't see Mars as the trip. ruler of the water trigon ).

[ Or would you say that peregrine Venus as our significator never managing to conjunct Mars (seller's significator) before Mars changes signs takes precedence?]

I'd say that the refranation of the two significators, followed by your sig turning retrograde is at the core of the resolution to your question, yes.

[For example, should I ask the question about another house and the 4th is weak, does that warn against that particular house?]

It would simply be describing the condition of the property, but taken by itself it isn't a warning against buying it. That would depend on lots of other factors, not the least of which would be the dignity of your significator(s). Every horary is unique, as I'm sure you're aware :-)

Hope you aren't bored with all these questions!

Not at all. Right now I'm just bored with what's on the telly :-)

Regards

Lottie

Cheers,
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lottie



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 14
Location: London, UK

Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pete

Lucky me that theres nothing on the telly at the moment! Very Happy

Thank you for your replies. Your feedback has been very valuable - you've facilitated some intellectual leaps I was struggling with.

Regards

Lottie
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