skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Associations of the New Planets in Tradition
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Nativities & General Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1368
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mithra6 wrote:


Saturn - Judaism
Jupiter - It says monotheism, but I think it implies Christianity here.
Mars - Heretics
Sun - Foreign religions and the worship of planetary spirits
Venus - The Saracen (Islam)
Mercury - Forbidden religions
Moon - Worship of idols


I have no time to check Picatrix, but Albumasar in the "On the Great Conjunctions" says Venus for Muslims and Mercury for Christians.
The same the christian version of Roger Bacon.

Margherita
_________________
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Mercury is "forbidden religions" due to its associations with astrology.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1368
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Mithra6 wrote:
I think Mercury is "forbidden religions" due to its associations with astrology.


In my opinion because Picatrix was strongly influenced by Albumasar.
And Albumasar gives Mercury to Christian religion, but he was not a Christian so he says that it is because "fuerit occultatio et gravitas et labor", occultation, heaviness and misfortune.

But Bacon replies that the Venusian law of Saracens is pleasure loving and lascivious...

Margherita
_________________
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4980
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am positive this subject has been discussed in considerable depth about a year or two ago on Skyscript but I cant find the thread anywhere.
Very frustrating. Confused
_________________
‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkC wrote:
I am positive this subject has been discussed in considerable depth about a year or two ago on Skyscript but I cant find the thread anywhere.
Very frustrating. Confused


I remember because I took part in it! I don't think it was that far back though.

The whole problem with the religion significators is that people start using preconceived notions of what they think religions are and try to apply them to planets. Many westerners see Buddhism and Hinduism as the height of enlightened learning and Islam and Christianity as the least enlightened. Thus to say Venus signifies Islam seems wrong according to that sensibility. Why would Islam be ruled by Venus? They hate women! har har har.

Sometimes you just have to detach yourself from your opinions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1368
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mithra6 wrote:
Thus to say Venus signifies Islam seems wrong according to that sensibility. Why would Islam be ruled by Venus? They hate women! har har har.

Sometimes you just have to detach yourself from your opinions.


I don't want to enter into a religious debate, and moreover we were talking about a famous and quoted text of traditional astrology.

I'm not a Muslim (I'm a catholic by education) but I don't believe Muslims hate women. It's their way to protect them from life, whatever we like or not.

In Italy we have plenty of strangers of very different nationalities and I never saw a Muslim man who sends his wife to work, he prefers to work all day without any help.

On the other hand, I see many people from other areas of the world who send their women to work and they prefer to stay at home.

So I'm not sure the first one hates his wife more than the second...

Margherita
_________________
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 922
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there an English version of Picatrix?

I heard about that name of that book in Jim Tester's book. It seems that Marsilio Ficino was inspired by this book.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4980
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this thread is skating a bit close to the edge personally. Shocked

Also doesn't the topic of planetary significators for world religions really belong on the Mundane part of the forum?
_________________
‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4980
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Eddy,

Quote:
Is there an English version of Picatrix?


Yes Ouroboros Press published the first English translation available in two volumes, Ouroborous Press (2002 Vol. 1 and (2008 Vol. 2). However, these were in very limited editions and the first volume is already very rare and reaching fantastic prices in the second hand book market. There have been a few criticisms of the accuracy of the editions too.

The good news is that John Michael Greer and Christopher Warnock are bringing out an entire new English edition next year. Books I & II ( out of a total of 4) are already on sale. If the subject of astrological magic and Talismans interests you its definitely a must have book.

Check the bottom of the page of this link for details:
http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/picatrix.html

Here is a review of the new edition by Nina Gryphon.
http://gryphonastrology.com/blog/2008/11/30/astrology-book-review-the-latin-picatrix-books-i-ii-trans-greer-and-warnock/
_________________
‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Greer/Warnock translation is light years better than the Ourobourous one. It's partial, but you'll get a far better sense of the actual Picatrix from it, and the PDF version is not prohibitively priced.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gjiada wrote:
Mithra6 wrote:
Thus to say Venus signifies Islam seems wrong according to that sensibility. Why would Islam be ruled by Venus? They hate women! har har har.

Sometimes you just have to detach yourself from your opinions.


I don't want to enter into a religious debate, and moreover we were talking about a famous and quoted text of traditional astrology.

I'm not a Muslim (I'm a catholic by education) but I don't believe Muslims hate women. It's their way to protect them from life, whatever we like or not.


Please don't get me wrong. I was being sarcastic! I just see comments like that when the whole significator in religions gets brought up. I've seen Islam singled out quite a bit when it's mentioned Venus is Islam's significator. People forget Islam's history and rich tradition. Some people can only think of Bin Laden.


Last edited by epurdue on Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:05 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkC wrote:
I think this thread is skating a bit close to the edge personally. Shocked

Also doesn't the topic of planetary significators for world religions really belong on the Mundane part of the forum?


Probably.

I probably shouldn't have been sarcastic. I forget sarcasm doesn't come across in forums sometimes. I just get a little tired of people generalizing what a religion is "supposed" to be based on what the news is currently saying. We saw that earlier in some comments about Islam.

We have all the traditional lists, and I personally don't have a problem with them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Warnock's and John Michael Greer's translation is far superior to Ourobouros'. The Ouroboros version was translated from an Arabic copy by an Arab translator who unfortunately didn't understand astrological terms very well. As a result the translation is a bit off.

The books are bound really nicely though.

I think we forget astrological terms can be unique, so if someone doesn't know what to look for, they may not understand the context of the terms. Almuten comes from the Arabic word for "victor" and the word "term" comes from the Latin "terminus" meaning ending or boundary. If you don't know what an almuten or term/bound is astrologically, you can see why it would be confusing. I know The Picatrix has a section on the bounds of Venus in magic, which would read like: "be aware of the endings of Venus".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, Steven. I also know that Abu'mashar (did I lend my copy to someone? must have done, because I still can't find it) wrote about how Saturn is Judaism because Christianity and Islam have to accept it at some level (it's the outer boundary, astrologically), but Saturn doesn't accept anything (it doesn't make friends with other planets), then we come down one notch and Christianity is Jupiter because Jupiter receives all, etc., and Venus - I know it was the ingress chart, but I think it also had something to do with Venus having more friends (astrologically speaking) and Islam, like Christianity, is a universal religion.

Mars is heretics and atheists because it really doesn't have much in the way of planetary friends, either, at least if I remember the theory correctly. It made sense when I read it anyway, does anyone have that passage handy?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Steven


if you have it handy, could you give the reference to this chart by Mashalah ?
_________________
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Nativities & General Astrology All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated