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Full and empty degrees

 
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Vindex



Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 53

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Full and empty degrees Reply with quote

I found Firmicus work called "Ancient astrology" - i think it was compilation from some author.

Firmicus says that every sign has empty and full degrees.

AC, Sun, Moon and 5 planets are only counting. He furthermore says that person who has one planet on full degree is mediocrity, those with two has average happy, with third "beyond average happy" , and 4 "royal happines"
He concludes "human is not given 5 star happiness"

Is there any confirmation for that subject from your experiance ?
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sasha_i



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Bucuresti

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,


I think that when Firmicus talks about full degrees, he is talking about those degrees in which can be found fixed stars (but I think that not any kind of stars, only relatively important stars). So considering this, due to the slow movement of the stars, empty and full degrees are different now.

If we take these full degrees as degrees with fixed stars, of course if Sun, Moon, Asc, or planets are found in these degrees, this becomes important
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hiimnotcool



Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 96

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He lists what the degrees are in the book.

Sign Degrees Full / empty Name
Aries 0°-2°59' empty
3°-7°59' full Senator
8°-16°59' empty
17°-20°59' full Senacher
21°-25°' empty
26°-29°' full Sentacher
Taurus 0°-2°' empty
3°-9°' full Suo
10°-11°' empty
12°-19°' full Aryo
20°-24°' empty
25°-29°' full Romanae
Gemini 0°-6°' full Thesogar
7°-8°' empty
9°-13°' full Ver
14°-16°' empty
17°-22°' full Tepis
23°-29°' empty
Cancer 0°-6°' empty
7°-12°' full Sothis
13°-14°' empty
15°-18°' full Sith
19°-20°' empty
21°-29°' full Thiumis
additional? [3] empty
Leo 0°-6°' full Craumonis
7°-10°' empty
11°-13°' full Sic
14°-19°' empty
20°-29°' full Futile
Virgo 0°-4°' empty
5°-9°' full Thumis
10°-11°' empty
12°-17°' full Tophicus
18°-23°' empty
24°-27°' full Afut
28°-29°' empty
additional? [4] empty
Libra 0°-4°' full Seuichut
5°-10°' empty
11°-18°' full Sepisent
19°-21°' empty
22°-27°' full Senta
28°-29°' empty
Scorpio 0°-2°' empty
3°-7°' full Sentacer
8°-13°' empty
14°-19°' full Tepisen
20°-21°' empty
22°-26°' full Sentineu
27°-29°' empty
Sagittarius 0°-8°' full Eregbuo
9°-11°' empty
12°-18°' full Sagon
19°-22°' empty
23°-29°' full Chenene
Capricorn 0°-6°' empty
7°-9°' full Themeso
10°-14°' empty
15°-18°' full Epiemu
19°-23°' empty
24°-29°' full Omot
Aquarius 0°-3°' empty
4°-8°' full Oro
9°-12°' empty
13°-18°' full Cratero
19°-21°' empty
22°-29°' full Tepis
Pisces 0°-5°' empty
6°-11°' full Acha
12°-14°' empty
15°-19°' full Tepibui
20°-25°' empty
26°-27°' full Uiu
28°-29°' empty



With that said, I have four. I don't have royal happiness.
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PFN



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 393
Location: Ouro Preto, Brasil

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have all my planets and AC in full degrees. Probably will rule the world muahahahaha...

Ok, now, if this is a serious theory, there should be more material and a consistent approach to how it actually works.


Last edited by PFN on Sat May 22, 2010 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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daz madrigal



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 331

Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Full and empty degrees Reply with quote

Vindex wrote:
I found Firmicus work called "Ancient astrology" - i think it was compilation from some author.

Firmicus says that every sign has empty and full degrees.

AC, Sun, Moon and 5 planets are only counting. He furthermore says that person who has one planet on full degree is mediocrity, those with two has average happy, with third "beyond average happy" , and 4 "royal happines"
He concludes "human is not given 5 star happiness"

Is there any confirmation for that subject from your experiance ?


I have ASC, Sun, Moon and Jup, Mer in full degrees so feel very happy Very Happy

Sadly I have Sat/AC so do not look happy Sad


Intriguing.
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Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4960
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have ASC, Sun, Moon and Jup, Mer in full degrees so feel very happy


I dont mean to rain on anyones parade but if the full and empty degrees are linked to fixed stars, as Sasha suggests, they will have changed their zodiacal degrees numerous times since Firmicus Maternus compiled (or more likely replicated) this list. Sothis is clearly a reference to the star Sirius. Although in the list its indicated as 7-12 degrees Cancer. Sirius is projected to just over 14 Cancer today. One would obviously expect a much bigger difference in zodiac degrees due to precession. However I am not clear which zodiac Firmicus was using so that might help explain it. Alternatively, it may be linked to the heliacal rising of certain fixed stars.

Personally, I think its a bit silly to start delineating this in our charts before we even understand the methodology Firmicus based the full and empty degrees on. Confused

Mark
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petosiris



Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 88

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The degrees are related to paranatellonta of specific stars in Egypt around 500 BC to 500 AD. This is obvious from the Sothis decan being the first decan of Cancer in both sidereal and tropical astrology at the time (see book I Apotelesmatics of Hephaistio).

Firmicus 7-12 degrees Cancer suggests that Sirius was rising with the 10th degree of Cancer. At Rome at the time of Firmicus this is not even close (about 15 degrees away). It is a couple degrees away for Alexandria/Sais in the 4th century and a bit further in the previous centuries.

However these degrees could be the precise observations of an Egyptian from Upper Egypt, someone like Hephaistio would likely be seeing the same degrees in Thebes.

Just to give an example of what would constitute a full degree I have the ''chart'' of George W. Bush who has the ascendant and Mercury in full degree Sothis.
https://imgur.com/a/xhQye

This does not help solve the ''twins problem'', but it does bring further differentiation of the 360000 people born each day. Someone with a similar chart is likely to not have Sirius rising.

All Egyptian decans are based on the co-risings of certain stars and not their ecliptic projection. It is a most unreasonable suggestion to pick what Hephaistio or Teucer said about ''decan x'' during the 1st century for the Mediterranean region and apply it to all charts everywhere. Carefully examine precession and parallels.

However, scholars should note that the degrees are 100% Egyptian.
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