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Nicholas Culpeper
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Xanny



Joined: 07 May 2007
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Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject: Nicholas Culpeper Reply with quote

As a student of Astrology I have become increasingly interested in herbal medicine using astrological correspondences as taught by Nicholas Culpeper, however, the sceptic in me asks why he was unable to heal his children or himself (dying of consumption at such a young age) Confused Is it a case of loosing objectivity or something else? Would welcome discussion Confused
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Nicholas Culpeper Reply with quote

Xanny wrote:
....asks why he was unable to heal his children or himself.....
I wouldn't worry too much about that. I don't know much about Culpeper but this problem seems to be a sort of 'fate' to some who want to do the best for others. Nostradamus' first wife and children died of a version of the plague he couldn't master. This caused others to distrust him. In the light of Easter I can say that the criticism on Jesus in his days was why he got crucified after having healed so many people.

As far as I see on the internet Culpeper died of tuberculosis. Such issues are a tragedy to the physicians themselves especially. Perhaps Culpeper also had his doubts or thought he had somewhat failed when he couldn't heal his children.
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Xanny



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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your kind response Eddy. It would appear that it is not unusual for a healer/physician to be unable to heal themself as can be seen from the mythological Chiron the Centaur.

The biblical "Physician, heal thyself" Luke 4:23 also makes reference to this:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/281850.html

It raises all sorts of questions as to why this may be. For instance, is medicine more powerful when given in service to others rather than for self gain.

From a personal standpoint I know that I will often believe I know what is best for others and offer them wise counsel, but find it difficult to apply the same to myself (subject/object). Through one's own subjective understanding we may be unable to take an objective stance in order to see the bigger picture. Mmm......
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Eddy



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Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A while ago I read about an astrologer who had had a serious accident. He wrote that others had asked him if he hadn't seen it in his chart. His reply was that he hadn't looked at his own chart for 20 years.

By the way it is said that Nostradamus knew when he would die.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/nos/oon/oon05.htm scroll to p.15
He wrote in an ephemeris: "Hic prope mors est" "Here is death at hand"

Quote:
From a personal standpoint I know that I will often believe I know what is best for others and offer them wise counsel, but find it difficult to apply the same to myself (subject/object).
That sounds very familiar, I've often suffered the same Shocked .
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Xanny



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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose all this leads us into the ongoing debate regarding Fate and Freewill Confused . If death is already written, no matter how competent the physician or potent the medicine, the final word rests with 'Moira' Laughing
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amzolt



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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xanny wrote:
I suppose all this leads us into the ongoing debate regarding Fate and Freewill Confused .


I believe fate and freewill co-exist--in astrology, at least, there is the fate of the meanings and the cycles of meanings that the chart holds; then, there is the free will, conscious or subconscious, that decides (often with two or more people's free will involved) the events to manifest those meanings.

Xanny wrote:
If death is already written, no matter how competent the physician or potent the medicine, the final word rests with 'Moira' Laughing


Searching for the "writing" of death in a chart can drive you crazy... Confused
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Xanny



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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your response amzolt,
Quote:
Searching for the "writing" of death in a chart can drive you crazy...


Can it not? But, as I am lead to believe, one of the first tasks of the natal astrologer, as it would be a pointless excersise should the native be fated to die in infancy (William Lilly).

I suppose the fate and freewill debate raises issues of awareness/enlightenment Whether one has an 'internal locus of control' or an 'external locus of control'.
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amzolt



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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xanny wrote:
I suppose the fate and freewill debate raises issues of awareness/enlightenment Whether one has an 'internal locus of control' or an 'external locus of control'.


I think I understand what you mean but could you explain the two "loci of control" you refer to?
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Xanny



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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think I understand what you mean but could you explain the two "loci of control" you refer to?


'Locus of control' is a term taken from Psychology and refers to whether one believes that their destiny is controlled by themself or by external forces.

For instance, if a person has a Mars configuration in their natal chart which they commonly expressed as anger, they may attribute the cause of their anger to this particular aspect and use it as justification (external locus). However, another person may recognise that used negatively this aspect would incline them to anger and take responsibility for transmuting the energy into it's more positive expression 'action' (internal locus).

Is it possible that through making this shift in consciousness that the natives' fate would be altered because they have changed the way they respond to the aspect??
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PFN



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
'Locus of control' is a term taken from Psychology and refers to whether one believes that their destiny is controlled by themself or by external forces.


The problem is that none can ascertain where it begins. One can have Saturn in Cancer in the midheaven by night and be extremely poor and sick. And then develop a pessimistic and melancholic approach to life. Now, what causes his condition is the way he sees life or the way life enforces itself upon him? This kind of question can not be answered, cause the laws of physical reality can not explain them. That's what we call a paradox. Paradox are there, and they represent two opposite principles working together as one. So, we just choose one of these principles and work as if the other did not exist, because the result will be positive both ways, cause both are correct. To predict one must accept fate, still, freewill is not cancelled, it is there still, and it is the very reason why fate works. Your destine is determined because you choose it, your actions take you there. In medical profession one would have to accept the fact that sometimes, the situation is beyond action. And still act as if it was not (as an ethical choice, obviously).

This is one conflict that does not lead anywhere, astrologers see the future not to change it, but to act acordingly. Else, to be a astrologer would be impossibe, cause instead of predictions we would be getting fate spins. Then, would astrology be useless? I do not think so, since one could say that medicine is useless based on the same argument. The chain leads me to believe that the astrologer interference is the very reason why sometimes a event turns out to be what it is. That's our active role. But we can never be sure, it's easier to predict the future than to answer a "what if" type of question.
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amzolt



Joined: 16 Apr 2009
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xanny wrote:
amzolt wrote:
I think I understand what you mean but could you explain the two "loci of control" you refer to?


'Locus of control' is a term taken from Psychology and refers to whether one believes that their destiny is controlled by themself or by external forces.


We're deep into it now, eh? Confused

First one must know if the person is using the word destiny as a supreme goal they desire or as their Fate. The first person would have an internal locus, the second an external locus.

Then, there's the consideration I brought up in my first post in this thread that there is a fate of Meaning and a free will of event production.

Now, we have four viewpoints... Confused

Xanny wrote:
Is it possible that through making this shift in consciousness that the natives' fate would be altered because they have changed the way they respond to the aspect??


Assuming a person believes there is only fate, there would be, to them, no possibility of changing it.

If they think all is free will, the question goes away, for them...

My belief is that, if a person believes they have the internal ability to decide their actions in a situation and the possibility to influence the actions of others, they can achieve a degree of control over the events of any aspect in their chart. The "fate" of it all is that the Meaning of the events will remain--a very simple example: the meaning of an upcoming event is "Dog"--the person believes they have no control over events and others determine the dog will be a vicious german shepherd VS the person believing they have internal control, desiring a loving labrador, and influencing others to the view that they deserve that kind of dog. Two different event-dogs, same fated meaning-dog...

Certainly, we have, in many, cases a limited ability to shape outer events and other's desires, yet, if the possibility exists and we don't believe it exists, we see all events as merely fated and cringe our lives away...
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Xanny



Joined: 07 May 2007
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
First one must know if the person is using the word destiny as a supreme goal they desire or as their Fate. The first person would have an internal locus, the second an external locus


I have never understood destiny to mean a supreme goal one desires, I don't believe it has anything to do with ones' desire except in as much as desire will affect choice/action. Interestingly enough, my dictionary encapsulates this debate quite succinctly as:

Destiny
1) "The future destined for a person or thing. 2) The predetermined course of events. 3) The POWER that predetermines the course of events

I believe that the element of 'freewill' under discussion boils down to No. 3) 'The POWER that predetermines the course of events.

We live in a dualistic world: Good/Bad, Dark/Light, Yin/Yang etc. Could it be that one's freewill is limited to which of these polarities one chooses to align themselves with? Once chosen, Fate takes over; until the next 'crisis of consciousness (transit) presents an opportunity to re-align oneself (unless of course we have reached the point of no return !!)
Sick crying
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amzolt



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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xanny wrote:
amzolt wrote:
First one must know if the person is using the word destiny as a supreme goal they desire or as their Fate.


I have never understood destiny to mean a supreme goal one desires...

Destiny
3) The POWER that predetermines the course of events


The "supreme goal one desires", to me, is the Power that determines the course of events...

Xanny wrote:
We live in a dualistic world: Good/Bad, Dark/Light, Yin/Yang etc. Could it be that one's freewill is limited to which of these polarities one chooses to align themselves with? Once chosen, Fate takes over; until the next 'crisis of consciousness (transit) presents an opportunity to re-align oneself (unless of course we have reached the point of no return !!)
Sick crying


What you say makes sense...
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Xanny



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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The "supreme goal one desires", to me, is the Power that determines the course of events...


Do you mean that you personally desire the Power which determines the course of events? Confused
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amzolt



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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xanny wrote:
Quote:
The "supreme goal one desires", to me, is the Power that determines the course of events...


Do you mean that you personally desire the Power which determines the course of events? Confused


No, I mean that any supreme goal one desires is the power that determines the course of events for that person...

The supreme goal is the power...
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