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more superfical nodal axis studies
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james_m



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Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:59 pm    Post subject: more superfical nodal axis studies Reply with quote

i was looking at obama's chart for the 2 times he was elected president of the usa...obama has north node at approx 27 leo, in the 7th and same sign as his sun which to me suggest leadership qualities by being in the sign leo with sun...

nov 4 2008 when he was elected, the north node is within 5 degree conjunction of his ascendant and exactly opposite his natal sun.. nov 6 2012 when he was elected president for a 2nd time the north node is within a 6 degree conjunction to his midheaven.. to me this would seem to suggest the potentially beneficial nature of the north node on the ascendant or midheaven for greater recognition. how one views the fact south node is conjunct his natal sun in the nov 4 2008 chart might have to hinge on it's natal placement and of course many other factors that go into all this..

i thought i would look at narendra modi's chart - the 15th and current prime minister of india. modi's chart is somewhat the reverse of obama's in so far as modi's sun is conjunct the south node within 5 degrees.. interesting that both leaders have a sun/nodal axis conjunct when one thinks of the idea of the sun as a natural symbol for leadership. may 26 2014, modi was sworn in as prime minister.. the nodal axis doesn't factor into this event in any direct way... thought i would share what i was looking at..
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james_m



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Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

looking at angela merkels chart, her sun is in a 10 degree orb with the south node and in the sign of the nodal axis as well as the previous 2 politicians.. this seems to continue to emphasize the leadership potential when the sun is found in a sign that is the same as the nodal axis.. she assumed the office of the chancellor of germany nov 22 2005.. the south node is in a 6 degree orb to her midheaven degree.. it is interesting to see the lead up into this event as it unfolds from about may 30th 2005 while thinking of where the nodal axis is in relation to her midheaven axis..

from the page on merkel at wikipedia "On 26 March 2014, she became the longest-serving incumbent head of government in the European Union. On 28 May 2014, she was named the most powerful woman in the world, also by Forbes." the march 26th date coincides with north node on her 10th house saturn - 2 degree orb, while about 12 degrees off a conjunction to her midheaven.. may 28th date north node is 9 degrees away and approaching the midheaven degree..

maybe it seems i am being selective here.. i don't know that i am.. i find it all interesting regardless..

in reviewing judith hills book, i note the first half of her book is taken from a talk on the nodes that she gave in 1988.. i continue to re-read the book she has out on the nodal axis and fwiw i happened to notice she has a book on eclipses which i hadn't read and to which i have ordered...
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Mark
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
in reviewing judith hills book, i note the first half of her book is taken from a talk on the nodes that she gave in 1988.. i continue to re-read the book she has out on the nodal axis and fwiw i happened to notice she has a book on eclipses which i hadn't read and to which i have ordered...

Hi James,

Thanks for sharing those chart examples of the transiting nodes. As I recall Judith Hill uses Equal houses. Her book is definitely one of the better books on the nodes and is less wooly than most works on the subject.

Your focus on particular aspects to the transiting nodes is very interesting. There seems to be a fair bit of Indian material on this. At least in terms of the conjunction. One interesting twist though is that Indian astrologers see the transiting nodes activating not just a particular natal planet and its house but also the affairs of the houses it rules.

In short Indian astrologers look at:

The houses that the transiting Nodes occupy;
The nature + houses of their (sign) dispositors;
The nature of the planet that conjuncts the Node(s)
The houses ruled by the planet that conjuncts the Node(s)

There would also be consideration to the natal configuration of the nodes by sign, house and dispositors.

Finally, but very crucially, there would also be attention given to the Nakshatra (Lunar Mansion) dispositor of each node.

I am rather intrigued by the Indian approach to the lunar nodes which gives them new signification on immediately entering a new sign not just by aspectual connection to one of the angles or planets. The obvious analogy would be the ingress of a planet into a new sign. This approach makes sense to me for two reasons. Firstly, with entry into a new sign the planetary dispositors of the nodes undergo a change. In addition if you use whole sign houses the change of sign is synonymous with a different house lord too. I confess this is not something I have seriously examined in lots of charts but it does seem a very interesting area for further research. With that approach you have a much longer time frame to examine potential nodal influence in a sign.

Another area I intend to look at is the effect of the the transiting nodes through the Egyptian bounds.

Clearly, though the transiting nodes are only one chart consideration so I wouldn't really expect it to provide all the answers.

Mark
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james_m



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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

thanks for sharing your thoughts here and educating many on the different approaches that can be taken in understanding all of this..

judith hill in 1988 was an astrologer who seemed to continue to be open to learning more. my impression is that she was using equal houses - whatever that might mean to different people - and that when whole sign houses came along seemed to adopt them.. i may be bastardizing her position here, but she seems fluid and to have incorporated new/old discoveries as they came up.. she discusses at length the different approaches to the use of the nodes - indian verses western - and also discusses the idea of conjunction based on sign position, as opposed to degree position.. of course it gets complicated when one thinks of tropical verses sidereal here. i believe she is centered on tropical as opposed to sidereal, but could be wrong. many of her ideas do seem steeped in the equal house/whole sign house idea, or a mixture of the two if one can imagine that.

sorry, that was pretty wordy.. best bet is for others to buy her book to get a better viewpoint on her views which capture much of what mark discusses..

as mark states - using the nodes is only one of many elements to astrology and can't really be taken in isolation, but it is fun to try and gleam some special insight that might not be available otherwise..
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Fleur



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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:


Your focus on particular aspects to the transiting nodes is very interesting. There seems to be a fair bit of Indian material on this. At least in terms of the conjunction. One interesting twist though is that Indian astrologers see the transiting nodes activating not just a particular natal planet and its house but also the affairs of the houses it rules.

I am rather intrigued by the Indian approach to the lunar nodes which gives them new signification on immediately entering a new sign not just by aspectual connection to one of the angles or planets.


This is interesting, as I once read something seemed to me to be strange, and against my own habit of using very small orbs. That in a natal chart, Saturn aspects anything in the whole sign it is in. I wonder if that is also from Indian astrology? I was puzzling this looking at the chart of somebody who died of mesothelioma, a type of lung cancer caused by exposure to asbestos, who has Saturn conjunct Mercury in 25 degrees Sagittarius, and the Sun in 8 degrees Sagittarius. I don't think many astrologers would consider this a conjunction with a 17 degree orb, but if you think of Charles Carter's "The typical indication (for cancer) is that the Sun is nearly always related both to Jupiter and to Saturn, either by aspect or by sign" then I did wonder if Saturn being in the same sign as the Sun was relevant. Obviously Mercury rules the lungs, but the Sun rules life itself.

Apologies for the tangent. Please delete this comment if it stops your thread going forward. I kept thinking about this idea that I came across ages ago about Saturn aspecting anything in the whole sign it is in and your post made me think of this.


Last edited by Fleur on Tue May 19, 2015 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Stefan



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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Judith Hill is an interesting astrologer. I've read some of her books + a taped workshop.
She uses tropical signs and whole sign houses in her chart. She is an excellent empirical practical astrologers who uses her great mass of experience in Reading charts to conclude what is working in practice.
She uses traditional astrology techniques as well as I understand it with the part "lot of fortune" in old ways.
She have also done a lot of astrological research.
One interesting such was that she could show that natural redheads had mars in certain places statistically.




http://www.findanastrologer.com/Interviews/judith-hill-interview
"JH: Globally, we learned that natal Mars distribution curves by angle to the Ascendant vary considerably between populations of natural redheads and non-redheaded Caucasians. Non-redheads have a predictably “flat” line distribution through the chart, with a tiny rise here and there. The “Redhead Curve” has notably large peaks and valleys. We had approximately ten groups of redheads, and they all showed this anomalous curve line. It is visually clear.

Take Mars placements within 30 degrees on either side of the Ascendant, and compare these with Mars birth placements opposite — 30 degrees on either side of the Descendant — then place these numbers side by side for redheads and non-redheads. Invariably, the redhead population will have a higher ratio of Mars on the Ascendant side and a lower ratio of Mars on the Descendant side. The difference between the two numbers is the exciting thing — rather high in every group. This differential will vary between highly significant and just under significance, but the redheads will trump non-redheads every time both in plain numbers and in the look of the curve. Redhead curves visually look alike and nearly match each other. Non-redhead curves are nearly flat. The results of this last study and my final observations were published by Borderland Research Sciences Journal. Noted researcher Nick Kollerstrom also performed some private analysis and scrutiny of these last results, though I am not sure where his conclusions were published. We also noticed many other phenomena in the study, too numerous to explain here."
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Fleur



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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stefan wrote:

One interesting such was that she could show that natural redheads had mars in certain places statistically.



I remember seeing Prince Harry's chart and Mars' antiscion was conjunct his Ascendant. He has red hair, and does a lot of Mars things. His Ascendant is 11 degrees Capricorn 21 minutes and his Mars is 16 degrees Sagittarius 57 minutes, antiscion 13 degrees Capricorn 03 minutes.
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Mark
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stefan/Fleur,

I am not saying the issue of hair colour and astrology isn't interesting but I dont really see any specific connection to the actual topic of the thread James has opened which is explicitly about the lunar nodes.

If people want to discuss hair colour and astrology further there is plenty of scope to open a thread devoted to this.

Thanks

Mark
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Stefan



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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. thanks, note taken.

I just thought that as one root basis of James thread, was actually Judith Hill's work on the nodes. And that James was discussing her, and was unsure about her aproach, I thought it might be interesting sidenote info, for the thread, to get more info about the work of this particular innovative astrologer.
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Mark
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:
Quote:
This is interesting, as I once read something seemed to me to be strange, and against my own habit of using very small orbs. That in a natal chart, Saturn aspects anything in the whole sign it is in. I wonder if that is also from Indian astrology? I was puzzling this looking at the chart of somebody who died of mesothelioma, a type of lung cancer caused by exposure to asbestos, who has Saturn conjunct Mercury in 25 degrees Sagittarius, and the Sun in 8 degrees Sagittarius. I don't think many astrologers would consider this a conjunction with a 17 degree orb, but if you think of Charles Carter's "The typical indication (for cancer) is that the Sun is nearly always related both to Jupiter and to Saturn, either by aspect or by sign" then I did wonder if Saturn being in the same sign as the Sun was relevant. Obviously Mercury rules the lungs, but the Sun rules life itself.


The idea of whole sign relationships between planets originates in ancient astrology from the hellenistic era. But Indian astrology has better preserved that tradition than modern western astrology. The concept does survive in a diluted sense down to the 17th century where you find astrologers like William Lilly discussing platick aspects.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/partile.html

In the example you give of the Sun and Saturn quite a few traditional astrologers might have considered the Sun just within orb of Saturn as some gave it a 17 degree orb on either side. Although 15 degrees was more common.

Certainly, in ancient astrology there is a sense of aspects having a whole sign dimension even if there was no close applying aspect involved. Indian astrology has retained this idea. Hence the North and South Nodes (Rahu and Ketu) are perceived as having an influence throughout an entire whole sign house/sign they are placed in.

Mark
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james_m



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Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks everyone for the feedback and different ideas expressed..

here are a couple of other examples.. in my search to find solid birth times, it is typically difficult..

i'm looking at whistle blowers.. i happened to see the birthdate for william mcneilly earlier today - aug 10 1989.. his sun is in an 8 or 9 degree conjunction to the south node.. t nodal axis has been hitting on his natal saturn (by square) - 1-2 degree orb the past little while.

edward snowden is born with sun conjunct north node. he is said to have gradually moved towards a position of releasing the cia type documents publicly, but made some initial moves in late 2012... the transiting north node is in late scorpio, not directly touching anything, but same sign as his natal moon in scorpio. he resigned from the cia in feb 2009 when north node is past midheaven about 11 degrees.. june 10 2013 booz allen terminates snowdens contract.. north node is in a 2 degree applying conjunction to his natal moon at 13 scorpio, which in turn rules his 2nd house.. interesting.. things really hit the fan for snowden in may 2013 as north node approaches natal moon. he would have been caught up in the loss of passport and stuck in the russian airport during the time of north node directly on natal moon in scorpio which is also fitting if one thinks of the nodal axis highlighting the strength or weakness inherent in a moon in scorpio in the 6th ruling over the 2nd.. moon is in a fairly tight square to venus natally in snowdens chart while this square impacts the midheaven axis directly..

i might give an overview on chelsea manning and julian assange in the next few days..
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james_m



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Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting alex salmond also has a sun/north node conjunction. it is separating, but about a 4 degree orb. may 16 2007 when he became first minister of scotland has transiting north node exactly on his midheaven. the nodal axis transit is on an approx 19 point something year cycle.. when he was first elected to gov't back in sept 26 1987 ( approx 20 years previously) transiting nodal axis is in the 10th sign/house about 8 degrees applying to his natal moon - ruler of his first house and about 20 degrees away from midheaven. his resigning on sept 19 2014 has transiting north node in a lower square to his ascendant 2 degree applying aspect..

although i looked at assange and mannings birth data, my problem is with the unverified birth times i am unable to examine how the transiting nodal axis connects with the chart angles. so, i am skipping reviewing there charts for this reason.
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Mark
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
interesting alex salmond also has a sun/north node conjunction. it is separating, but about a 4 degree orb. may 16 2007 when he became first minister of scotland has transiting north node exactly on his midheaven. the nodal axis transit is on an approx 19 point something year cycle.. when he was first elected to gov't back in sept 26 1987 ( approx 20 years previously) transiting nodal axis is in the 10th sign/house about 8 degrees applying to his natal moon - ruler of his first house and about 20 degrees away from midheaven. his resigning on sept 19 2014 has transiting north node in a lower square to his ascendant 2 degree applying aspect..


Nice research on this thread James. Like you I am interested by in transiting nodes. But there is no option better than demonstrating an idea with real charts. So kudos to you for taking the time to do that. I thought I knew Alex Salmond's chart really well but you are making me think I missed a trick when it comes to his nodal connections!

Thanks

Mark
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astrocorreia



Joined: 29 Mar 2015
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
thanks everyone for the feedback and different ideas expressed..

here are a couple of other examples.. in my search to find solid birth times, it is typically difficult..

i'm looking at whistle blowers.. i happened to see the birthdate for william mcneilly earlier today - aug 10 1989.. his sun is in an 8 or 9 degree conjunction to the south node.. t nodal axis has been hitting on his natal saturn (by square) - 1-2 degree orb the past little while.

edward snowden is born with sun conjunct north node. he is said to have gradually moved towards a position of releasing the cia type documents publicly, but made some initial moves in late 2012... the transiting north node is in late scorpio, not directly touching anything, but same sign as his natal moon in scorpio. he resigned from the cia in feb 2009 when north node is past midheaven about 11 degrees.. june 10 2013 booz allen terminates snowdens contract.. north node is in a 2 degree applying conjunction to his natal moon at 13 scorpio, which in turn rules his 2nd house.. interesting.. things really hit the fan for snowden in may 2013 as north node approaches natal moon. he would have been caught up in the loss of passport and stuck in the russian airport during the time of north node directly on natal moon in scorpio which is also fitting if one thinks of the nodal axis highlighting the strength or weakness inherent in a moon in scorpio in the 6th ruling over the 2nd.. moon is in a fairly tight square to venus natally in snowdens chart while this square impacts the midheaven axis directly..

i might give an overview on chelsea manning and julian assange in the next few days..


That certainly fits the idea of releasing associated with the SN Thumbs up
Good job.I`ll check my own nodal transits and get back to you
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james_m



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Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mark and astrocorreia,

amy winehouse's chart is another interesting one from the nodal axis pov that margherita pointed out on another thread..

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Winehouse,_Amy

i am just skimming the surface here, but having south node conjunction neptune in the 7th seems very fitting given amys history.. concern for drug and alcohol dependency is marked by this conjunction and in the end was what led to her early demise.. how much of this was directly related to the relationships with significant others also seemed to be backed up by her circumstances as well.. at the time of her death the north node is within a 5 degree orb to a conjunction with natal neptune, while about 4 degrees off the 10:25pm birth time descendant given for amy.. transit mars gets directly caught up in this being on the transiting south node end on her ascendant..

she bought a guitar and started playing and writing songs at around 14 - north node conjunct her natal sun, although singing runs in her family ancestry..

her parents separated at 9.. solar return for her 9th birthday has north node exactly conjunct her natal neptune..

it is said north node rising folks are very strong people and there is often something unusual about them...what is interesting is the respiratory related problems she is said to have given north node in gemini, not sag.. what i gleam from my reading is that the polarity of the nodal axis can shift whereby the weakness or strength of the south or north node is reversed.. on a superficial read it seems to be the case here..

leaning on the nodal axis seems like a superficial way to read a chart, but i do continue to find it especially interesting at this point.. just how much south node in the 7th conjunct neptune would spin her 7th house ruler jupiter in whs 7th remains to be seen, but if folks aren't considering the nodal axis it would be completely off the radar for consideration! hopefully the conclusions we come to with regard to houses don't hinge on neglect or negligence on what is so much more to astrology then our particular biased based on our limited perception..
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