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For those of you who have a Planet in the House of its Joy..
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Sunny Dawn



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Brunswick, MD

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:01 pm    Post subject: For those of you who have a Planet in the House of its Joy.. Reply with quote

I've been mulling over planets in the House of Their Joy, and how they acutally manifest for the natives who have them, and I've decided to seek some opinions from folks on here.

Quick Recap on the "Joys"
Sun 9th House
Moon 3rd House
Mercury 1st House
Venus 5th House
Mars 6th House
Jupiter 11th House
Saturn 12th House

I'm trying to decide if having a planet in the House of its Joy has its primary impact on the house, or if it causes the planet to manifest more strongly than other planets in the personality (without regard to the natal house), or some combination of both.

I am leaning toward some combination of both. Mars in the 6th is said to be a hard worker (this would be house-centered - a strong Mars drives the work ethic) but a woman I know with Mars in the 6th can be a real bitch - in other words, the Martian energy is everywhere in the personality. It could be said to be a "negative joy".

I have Venus in the 5th. At first glance, there appears to be no impact on the house - I have no children, and no exceptional luck with love affairs.

But on closer glance, I would say Venus gives a "negative joy" in the 5th. Venus does well in love affairs, but her marriage to Hephasteus was a disaster. As a native with this position, I had a disastrous love affair that I thought would lead to marriage, but didn't. In fact, because Venus is so happy with sex in the 5th House, I almost feel as if a Joyful Venus jumps into sex too quickly. If she held out, maybe she'd have a better chance of making it to marriage.

I do see some evidence that the Venus energy is prominent in my personality. I'm not a girly girl, but I do like to wear distinctive jewelry, make my own dresses, etc...

For those people who have these placements, have you observed something similar to what I have just described? Or are there some other opinions out there?
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PFN



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 393
Location: Ouro Preto, Brasil

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not think that planetary joy helps that much, being only a minor dignity.

But in fact, the house they fall as joys are somewhat analogue to their meaning, if you take a closer look (this is my opinion).

Mercury on 1st, where it relates to communication of ideas. For those who have seen a person with 1st house Moon, can see how subjective and emotional are their discourse, contrary to Mercury, which gives both bodily and linguistic clear communication.

Moon on 3rd relates to the speed related to the house, and also to empathy.

Venus on 5th is not necessary to explain.

Mars on 6th gives disposition to serve, and to get things done. More of all, 6th is a house of abuse from others, so Mars there helps to prevent it.

Sun on 9th gives an ego free of malice and pointed towards higher purposes.

Jupiter on 11th expands friendship in a general form.

And happy is the one who got luck with Saturn on 12th, cause that's my dream, to lock it into a pit, and with only quincux to never get out.
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Sunny Dawn



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Brunswick, MD

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject: Anyone else? Reply with quote

PFN, I have also observed that Saturn seems to do less damage in the 12th House. It does seem to be an actual "joy" placement. Your point on a defensive Mars in the 6th is also interesting.

I know about the assumption that the Joys are a minor dignity. I want to go farther than that if I can, and see if people have been able to identify specific associations for these placements in their own horoscope or that of someone they know well. In other words, I was hoping for personal feedback in lieu of objective assessments on how the "Joys" would theoretically operate - anyone with a bit of interpretive skill can come up with a theortetical model.
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All I know is that if my birth chart was a horary, the answer would be "No".

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PFN



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 393
Location: Ouro Preto, Brasil

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if a little personal feedback helps, I have a 5th house Venus as well. I'm still young, no sons, but Venus there just tends to raise my tact, especially because conjunct Mars. 5th is the house of ambassadors, and I'm well known for being able to conjoin people that would otherwise be enemies, or to bring settlement to potentially explosive situations. But that is more to the Venus conjunction with Mars in Leo, than to the position of it I guess, but joy certainly must help. Also, I indulge in pleasures very easily, and have a cosmopolitan taste for arts (and a little of capability of expressing art as well). Now, both of them are disposited by my Sun in 6th, Libra, so my Venus and my Sun are in mutual reception by whole sign, which gives myself a lot of pleasure to be of service.

About the Moon and Sun, my sister has both, in a very strange opposition. I know that her Sagitarius Sun in 9th makes her likeable and free of restraints like no other person, but the Moon in third is somewhat dampened by the opposition. My theory from empathy comes from her, since she does have keen senses of underlying intentions noticeable from the expression of the irrational minds of others.

Still, my problem with planetary joy is that it's expression will depend a lot on the sign the planet falls in. I mean, the house meaning will give a little bit of extra capability to the planet, still, the sign will modulate it, and aspects can just vanish away with this power depending of the chart configuration.

Definitly we would expect a Capricorn 5th house Venus to behave very differently from a one in Gemini for example, and the dispositor counts a lot, so joy gets lost in the delineation, just like the Face dignity tends to.
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kerenhappuch



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 396
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some interesting anecdotes and experiences here.

I'd suspect that the dignity and aspects of a planet would greatly influence how it behaves, even in the house of its joy. I have Mercury in the 1st house, although in a different sign to the Asc. Certainly I have always been academic, although this is more likely to be shown by Saturn on MC, given my Mercury is R in Pisces and combust Lala Happy So in my case I'm not sure that Mercury being in the 1st has any great effect.

I'd be more inclined to look at the joys as offering an insight into the meanings of the planets and houses, to be used more as a concept to aid understanding rather than as an idea to be actively used in judgement.

Keren
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Sunny Dawn



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Brunswick, MD

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I have a better idea of what you are thinking now, PFN. My feeling is that a planet in the sign of its joy should impact the house and the overall chart, and that the sign of residence is secondary. You're giving more weight to the sign (and possibly to the dispositor), which would tend to lessen the distinct impact of a planet in its joy, as you point out.

You also seem to be saying that your Venus has its "joy" in your overall personality, and the impact on the house is there, but less discernable.

Anyone else have any ideas?
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1380

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Saturn in the 12th but I couldn't really say if it's good or bad. It's all mucked up with a Scorpio Moon conjunction.

Maybe one needs to keep sect in mind with these joy things. The diurnal planets Sun, Jupiter and Saturn all have their joy in houses above the horizon. My chart is diurnal so it probably keeps diurnal Saturn from utter depravity. It could be that Jupiter in its 11th house joy isn't so joyous in a nocturnal chart with the Sun below the horizon. The nocturnal planets Moon, Venus and Mars have their joy beneath the horizon, so they perhaps need a nocturnal chart in order to really shine (Is that a pun? And did I intend it?) Changeable Mercury gets the eastern horizon where night becomes day.
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janeg



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PFN wrote:
And happy is the one who got luck with Saturn on 12th, cause that's my dream, to lock it into a pit, and with only quincux to never get out.


Be careful what you wish for. I have Saturn in Libra conjunct Neptune in the 12th in opposition to the Sun and Venus in the 6th, ruling the 3rd and 4th; it joys there alright but it does not bring joy to the life.

It brought an early death for my father (4th) from a heart-attack (Sun opp); for my siblings (3rd), a brother who has struggled with drug addiction (Neptune conj, Venus opp) and a disability due to a fall from a high place (Saturn in Air in 10th from 3rd); an early death to a younger sister (Venus) from inflammatory breast cancer (Saturn), and my mothers death (4th, Sun rules 10th of mother, Saturn also trines Moon in 4th) from cancer (Saturn)

So far the harm has been deflected (cadency) from me to those around me; it is inconjunct Mercury (ruler of 8th) in 5th so we shall see; it has definitely presaged sorrow and unhappiness in my life.
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Tracey



Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 61
Location: New Zealand

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I have Mars in the 6th in Taurus and I do everything to routines and patterns. I tend to think ahead so that onerous tasks are done first and then we can all relax at the end of the day. I like to set up systems both for myself and others to follow so that everything trots along to an efficient, predictable pattern, everyone knows what needs to be done - it feels strange to leave the house before certain tasks have been completed. The downside is getting too stuck in patterns, or becoming irritated when other's muck up these routines or the way something should be done; another manifestation is that, with children, I would rather stay at home than muck up their sleeping and eating patterns, which can get a little boring. I feel really uncomfortable when they stay up beyond their bedtimes or don't eat a proper meal.

Tracey
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PFN



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 393
Location: Ouro Preto, Brasil

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

janeg wrote:

It brought an early death for my father (4th) from a heart-attack (Sun opp); for my siblings (3rd), a brother who has struggled with drug addiction (Neptune conj, Venus opp) and a disability due to a fall from a high place (Saturn in Air in 10th from 3rd); an early death to a younger sister (Venus) from inflammatory breast cancer (Saturn), and my mothers death (4th, Sun rules 10th of mother, Saturn also trines Moon in 4th) from cancer (Saturn)


Well, like I said, with only quincux. Nobody wants oppositions, and definitly not a opposition from a 12th house planet. Obviously a Saturn in 12th with a trine from Jupiter and no other aspects would be most reassuring. Otherwise, not. I did not intend to mock the 12th house Saturn condition, forgive if sounded like that.
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janeg



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 98

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PFN wrote:


Well, like I said, with only quincux. Nobody wants oppositions, and definitly not a opposition from a 12th house planet. Obviously a Saturn in 12th with a trine from Jupiter and no other aspects would be most reassuring. Otherwise, not. I did not intend to mock the 12th house Saturn condition, forgive if sounded like that.


No worries, I did not take it as mocking. I know the texts say it's better to have a malefic tucked into a cadent sign but I think I'd much rather have him in sect with dignity, beseiged by benefics, in and ruling good houses.
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Sunny Dawn



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Brunswick, MD

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:10 pm    Post subject: Good stuff, folks Reply with quote

These are the observations I was hoping for - anyone have Jupiter in the 11th House...I'd be curious to see what they think of it.
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All I know is that if my birth chart was a horary, the answer would be "No".

My Blog: http://slushpileastrology.blogspot.com/
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azcelt



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 28
Location: Flagstaff.Arizona

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I have a 6th house [out of bounds]Mars in capricorn. He is very strong and conjunct my NN.If you have a cause that needs fighting for I am the one-let me bring my Mars in all his joy along.
I am not sure if I am organised[despite being a Gemini] because I was in a boarding school or due to my capricorn Mars in his house of joy.My health has always been great but I have had some serious accidents-many falls[horses,motorcycles,bicycles].Jupiter rules my 6th and is in the 12th in opposition to mars.[broken bones,ruptured spleen and Hep c due to blood transfusion] I have a very effective mars!
Azcelt
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moonwise



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 128
Location: USA-Germany

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:44 pm    Post subject: Merc in first Reply with quote

I'm not too familiar with planets in houses of joy, but for what it's worth I have Mercury in the first house.

I'm an interpreter so Merc seems to help there. But I also (so I've been told by relatives and my husband) tend to say too much. Many is the time I've spoken unnecessarily and I tend to start chatting with anyone within earshot. That's not too good is it? But I've started to listen more, speak less and at the salon or post I just smile as people pour their troubles out.

Just my personal experience Secret
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 946
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh! I have 3 joyful planets, depending upon the house system: Saturn in the 12th, Venus in the 5th, and Mars in the 6th in some house systems.

I think these operate well enough. In my case Venus in the 5th never generated a fondness for gambling and love affairs (?!) possibly because of oppositions to her and my other 5th house planets; and because the accidental house cusp ruler of my 5th is Saturn in my 12th house! But more generally I am very happy involved with outdoor recreation (an amusement) and my two (young adult) children. I dedicated a lot of energy to my work prior to my retirement, and generally saw it as a form of service.

Saturn can represent the father in a night birth, and in the 12th it can be associated with a father who is literally absent or perhaps aloof and "unavailable" in some way. Although I think the latter was true in my case, he provided very well for his family.

I view Saturn as my greatest planetary teacher. Patience, persistence, hard work, self-discipline, and resourcefulness are some of his lessons. They don't sound like a heap of "joy", but in my case I think they have paid off later in life.
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