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Medieval Astrology Courses
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Gemini18



Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 11
Location: UK

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:03 am    Post subject: Medieval Astrology Courses Reply with quote

I am nearing the end of my QHP Diploma, and am now considering a course in Medieval Astrology...There are a couple out there which spring to mind, notably Bernadette Brady's and also Zoller's.

Has anyone heard of any others, or indeed would anyone recommend strongly either of the above. I am more than happy to take any suggestions/info on board before I make the decision where to go.

Kind regards


Last edited by Gemini18 on Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Patricia,

Have you checked Ben Dykes site. I thijnk that he is offering courses too.

Deb
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Ben is offering courses yet. But he does have part of a lecture series up on philosophy and history which is probably pretty interesting (I haven't downloaded it as I've studied most of the topics so far).

But the prices aren't bad ($6 per lecture), with a freebie to start out. Probably worth checking.

Lee Lehman offers courses sometimes at www.leelehman.com, Chris Warnock offers medieval, but only horary, I think, and you've already done that. John Frawley, but you'd have to be WAY richer than me.

Anyone else? I've been curious about this myself, and am on an extreme budget.
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epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand Ben is going to offer a natal course in the future. If you can hold out, I think Ben would be a great choice. I don't know when he's starting it.

Robert Zoller is no longer associated with his course despite what the site says. The site offering it is the legal copyright holder, but Robert is no longer a part of it. The course is still good, at least the written material is good, but you are going to be largely on your own and tutoring is extra.

Lee Lehman is also excellent. I've never taken her courses, but she's extremely knowledgeable and experienced, and I respect her a lot based on her books alone. I've never heard anything negative about her courses.

Chris Warnock doesn't offer a natal course. He offers horary, electional, and astrological magic. His courses are also excellent, and in fact I am taking them now so I can personally vouch for them. If you're looking for natal though, this wouldn't be the choice.
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee is excellent - I did one course with her, but it was mostly for modern astrologers doing a transition to classical, which left me wanting more, cos I think I'd either managed to forget or repress, or both, most of the modern I learnt way back when and was far more interested in the classical side of things. I haven't ruled out doing another one with her - she is very good indeed.

I ended up doing the course because a friend who does modern astrology wanted to learn classical and needed a study buddy. Strangely, she opted not to finish when she saw the workload, but I'm not sorry I did. It is a fair amount of work and homework, and it'll mean reading everything from astrological history to Aristotle (you'll need to buy some books - maybe about $100 - $300 US worth, depending on where you live, but a number of them, like the Aristotle, are free on the web, and yes, it IS worth it to pick up at least some of the optional texts - that ran me about $300 US - libraries around here have had budget cutbacks so we haven't had new astrology books in about nine years - not required, but Very Helpful, and you probably already have the Lilly anyway - that's the priciest), but it's a good natal course. I did choke over the 'interpret this chart classically and also by two modern methods assignment', but it was the modern methods that did me in, not the classical stuff. But Lee has life stuff going on at the moment, so I'm not sure if she's currently teaching - she may be back to it. I hope so, anyway.

I didn't know that Bob Zoeller didn't own the copyright to his materials anymore - I was thinking of buying the PDF'd books but if he isn't going to profit from them, I'm not sure I should - ethics and all that - don't need details but did he get ripped off in that deal?
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epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm hearing this 2nd hand, but I think it was more like he dropped out.
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Gemini18



Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 11
Location: UK

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:26 am    Post subject: Medieval Courses Reply with quote

Many thanks for your feedback..

Yes, I had heard somewhere that Zoller was no longer associated with the courses, and although the coursework is very good the student is pretty much left to fend for themselves.

I will look into the Lee Lehman course and see if it ticks boxes.. your high praise is very reassuring as I can think of nothing worse than starting a course and knowing within a heartbeat that a poor choice has been made.
However, the "interpret this chart classically and also by two modern methods assignment', made me grimace as that is precisely the sort of assignment I would wish to avoid.

Ditto to Frawley. Love his books, but could not afford his Horary course.
I have emailed Ben Dykes, who I would actually wait for if he was to start a course in the next 12 months.

Once again, many thanks!
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Ben



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

I wanted to confirm the rumor that I will be offering a medieval course within about a year, focusing at least at first on nativities. I am almost at the point of being ready to write lessons, but there are some things I want to work out based on some upcoming Logos & Light lectures, and based on my next book on nativities. I have not yet determined whether this will be something like a PDF download, or perhaps a paperback, or whether it will even involve tutoring.

I wouldn't want to keep anyone from looking at other courses based on this promise since it might take a little longer to develop than I have planned; but it is true that I will be offering one by sometime next year.

Ben Dykes
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Traditional Astrology Texts and Teaching
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben, you forgot to tell people to download your free introductory lecture for the Logos & Light series!

Also, your PDF notes to go with them are broken so check those, please, because they don't seem to open in any version of PDF that I've got.

Anyway, Ben does have a lecture series up that ought to give a good philosophical background to traditional astrology.

I giggled listening to his intro lecture - not cos he's bad - he isn't! But I had that same experience at university where you're supposed to learn all kinds of philosophy, but, ahem....'a reasonable man (or woman) is, of course, not certain enough of anything to actually believe in it or DO anything on account of it' - paraphrasing there - as well as having I can't remember how many modern astrologers tell me I haven't crawled out of the primordial ooze spiritually because I do all that fated dreary classical stuff instead of realising I AM IN TOTAL CONTROL OF MY DESTINY. Ahem again. I thought it was just me that happened to! And mostly because when I post at forums or on the blog, unless I'm walking somebody through a technical procedure, or a 'why this means what it does' explanation I tend to have a very casual tone.

It's a good intro lecture, Ben has a good speaking voice and he's interesting, too. I think you'll get hooked if the philosophical background of traditional is new or has eluded you, and he's going back thousands of years here. And he talks about some of the mind traps, or ideologies, that people fall into especially these days that keep astrology pretty much off the radar completely for them. Or at least cofined to reading the sun-sign column over the breakfast table. If you're human, you need to know about these things called hegemonies, whether you're an astrologer or not. They can keep you from thinking in meaningful directions.

Bonus points for mentioning Philo of Alexandria in conjunction with Logos. And you studied Hegel!

Minor quibble for saying Judaism as well as Christianity emphasises free will (Judaism's way too stoic). But MINOR quibble. Nothing else in there I could complain about.

It was a really good lecture, and I'm sure the others will be, too. And it's FREE.
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Ben



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Olivia,

Thanks for letting me know about the PDF guides. I am now going through and making sure they can all be opened with Acrobat 5.0 (which I think is the earliest version usable now).

Not to quibble with your quibble, but I don't think I ever said that Judaism emphasized free will (at least in the ancient period); though the notion of will as obedience was present if not expressed in clear philosophical terms, and Philo was an important source for the indeterminate free will. I'll be dealing with this in much greater detail in future lectures, and in fact I do deal with it a little in the Intro to Traditional Philosophy lectures. If I was somewhat sloppy in making a general comment, that's my mistake.

Thanks also for your warm endorsement of the series, I appreciate it!

Ben
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a problem, Ben, it's always a joy to hear a philosopher who knows what he's talking about!

You explain things very clearly, I can understand why you'd be a good university lecturer.

And it really was nice to hear that I'm not the only one who came into too much contact with the 'far too obsessed disciples of Derrida brigade' as I used to call them - the folks who want you to learn all this stuff people have been wrestling with for millenia about how to live in the world in a way that's good and does minimal harm to anyone else - but at the same time seem to be saying - 'eh, but none of it's enough that you should take it seriously or adopt it'.

It seems to be endemic in higher education these days. It's a logical flaw, but I haven't a clue what that one's called.
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Ben



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Olivia,

I know what you mean, and that's why it was so refreshing years ago to find Aristotle and the Stoics especially, since they have real, practicable advice. I'm glad to hear you like what you've heard so far. My feedback so far has been very good, and I'm happy to have my belief confirmed that many people want something like this.

Best,
Ben
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the Stoics, but I'm Jewish, so that probably explains it. Have some of my own theories about the Cypriot Jews and Stoicism but haven't done the research, so I'm not sure. Still, I'd say that when the bible (Jewish version at least) has quotes in it like 'the dead are happier than the living, and happiest of all are those who were never born' (some days that's one of my favourites), as well as all the mussar (ethical instruction) work about why anger is A Bad Thing and how to deal with it in a practical way, it's reasonable to assume there was a good bit of cross-fertilisation going on there.

The lectures about the Stoics, and stoicism - those ones I definitely look forward to!

For the rest of you: Stoicism isn't all gloom and doom, it's actually a pretty cool philosophy and lets you learn to look at life as it is, with the goal of maintaining a level emotional and mental state no matter what happens - so you still end up being a mensch (decent human being), and not losing your mind over the bad.

Okay, that belonged in a for idiots guide, but stoicism's important, and the meaning of the word has been played pretty fast and loose throughout the centuries. It's not the 'grit your teeth and bear it' that people usually think of - often on the way to dental appointments. There's a whole lot more going on than that.
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4955
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hi All,

I wanted to confirm the rumor that I will be offering a medieval course within about a year, focusing at least at first on nativities.


Thats great news Ben. I have wanted to study traditional natal technique for ages. Sadly, Robert Zoller has had to drop out of running his course for health considerations. That has left a real vacuum for those seeking a better understanding of medieval astrology.

With no direspect to John Frawley or Lee Lehman I understand their courses are traditional in a more generic sense rather than focused exclusively on medieval technique. Lee Lehman is actually quite explicit about this. Equally, while Bernadette Brady is offering a medieval astrology course her personal revisioning of some traditional notions (such as combustion) make me keen to find a teacher more solidly rooted in core medieval technique.

I cannot speak for others but I would personally welcome a structured course which allowed individual feedback for students. Self study based on one or multiple texts can lead to misunderstandings which become quite ingrained without the opportunity for dialogue and constructive criticism.

We now have your wonderful translations but I think many of us will really welcome a course like you are suggesting to put all that material into practice.

regards

Mark
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‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
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Gemini18



Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 11
Location: UK

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:10 am    Post subject: Medieval Courses Reply with quote

Thank you all for your great input which is very much appreciated.

A special thanks to MarkC who managed to encapsulate my thoughts entirely....

Quote:
I cannot speak for others but I would personally welcome a structured course which allowed individual feedback for students. Self study based on one or multiple texts can lead to misunderstandings which become quite ingrained without the opportunity for dialogue and constructive criticism.


It is, sadly all too easy - especially reading ancient texts no matter how well translated, to misinterpret or misunderstand meanings... and with few around to bounce such ideas off, the input from those who know better is invaluable, and in my case crucial!!

Kind regards to all
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