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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Mystery chart Ė identifying the time of greatest danger
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Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 151
Location: lisbon

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
For the sake of keeping everyone's mind open, I'll just say that this was not connected to the Word Trade Centre disaster, or any other famous or well known event. I don't want to dwell upon the details of the accident because it might lead people down the wrong alley, but it was just a private accident - it didn't make the news.

with uranus mars and pluto in IC i can imagine he felt out of sorts in his homeland and moved abroad. Do you know if thats the case? I also got Uranus in 4 opposite Moon
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dr. farr

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 276
Location: los angeles, california usa

Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The time given by Ms Houlding is already corrected for daylight savings time; in the Astrodienst chart section put in 7:31 and, since Astrodienst automatically corrects for DST, you will get the same chart as posted by Ms Houlding (ps: when I ran the data initially I made the same error)
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Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 33
Location: India

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
I didnít see the call to move the comments yesterday; and to be honest I would find it hard to know where to cut into this discussion; and it is always risky when we try to move posts, because they might get deleted instead.
But at this point the discussion of SR does seem to be taking over the topic, and I would like to see the focus brought back to this example chart. So perhaps if anyone wants to continue talking about this particular point, they should begin a new thread, and I will create a link to this.


yup I saw that thread which is started by you
its really very good and informative also.
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Scorpio Asc.

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Posts: 29
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:33 pm    Post subject: date of accident Reply with quote

So, April 28-29 2002, so.
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Joined: 17 Dec 2016
Posts: 54

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
I'm not sure if it is cheating to be quite so clever about it Rene Smile

Anyway, yes, I understand the objections being raised, and they are valid points. It may be that most of us will only be able to understand how deep the connections go when we look at this chart in hindsight. But Iíd like to make a suggestion.

Most people seem to be trying to identify a year or a range of one or two years based on favoured predictive techniques such as primary directions, profections, etc (I donít think weíve had much by way of solar returns or eclipse points Ė and I donít even know if they are relevant).

But I think that if this were being done for a client, and you highlighted a worrying year, you wouldnít suggest the whole year as a time to be especially careful, but would try to identify the most worrying time of the most difficult transits (or lunations, or whatever) within that year. If something difficult is going to happen, the effects would surely be felt within the period of the most difficult transits. So you might get a lot closer with this, if you look a little deeper.

I can tell you that the only thing I looked at and noticed when I worked on this chart, was how closely it related to the time of the accident. The transit connections between the moment of birth and the presumed moment of death are very strong and reflective of each other. This is one of several charts that has convinced me that there is undoubtedly a connected thread between the moment of birth and death, because those two moments fit together like a hand in a glove. But with all the moments in a life time, how can a mortal astrologer possibly sift through them all in advance? My suggestion is to start with your predictive technique but donít be too inhibited by it. When you get a sense of a possible time-span, sift through the major transits Ė if there is nothing that fits to this chart in a quite striking manner, then that is probably not going to be the year.

Also remember how many times we talk about predictive charts being so much stronger at those times when they reflect the natal themes. So I think it makes a lot of sense to spend a bit of time analysing the natal chart first, and again, if you canít find a period that contains a time when the natal theme is being mirrored in some way, that is probably not the right time either.

I will also add that this man was not a terrorist, and there was nothing extreme in his lifestyle that I know of. Everything I heard from his family suggested he was happy and amicable, with a love of travel and an active social life. I think that Rene is right to dwell a little on the Sun-Jupiter conjunction which fits his phycial profile because that seems influential in his personality as it was described to me. The accident came out of the blue at a time when he was known to be in a jovial mood.

His birth chart does however, as several people have pointed out, show the potential for violent death. The (8th-ruler)Saturn-Mars opposition in the birth chart gives a very similar theme to that seen in King (lance-through-the-eye) Henry IIís chart, which is currently featured on the home page. Henry was also in a jovial mood at the time of his mortal accident. But not every birth chart with the Saturn-Mars opposition will suggest premature death through a violent accident, so look at the extra factors that add to the inevitability and hostility of that aspect. In this chart they are emphasised on the angles with Pluto strongly tied into the main action, and Uranus fairly closely involved too. The SaturnĖMars/Pluto opposition is also very closely squared by the Sun-nodal axis, making a grand cross out of the danger points. So thatís what I think you need to find a strong connection to, within a timeframe which supports the possibility of high-risk change.

Can it be done ? I am now convinced this is an extremely difficult task, so I don't think that anyone should hesitate for fear of being seen to be wrong. Presume that you will be wrong, because what we are trying to do here ought to be impossible.

I am finding all the replies fascinating, and it makes me realise how much we could learn from every chart that lies abandoned in our files, if we could only take each one out and give it the attention it really deserves.

This may sound depressing but bad things tend to happen when we are in a jovial mood,not when we are depressed. Too much Yang leads to yin and vice versa. So,we might say Jķpiter is an evil in disguise
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