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Rectification with Kepler

 
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polgara



Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 6

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 9:12 am    Post subject: Rectification with Kepler Reply with quote

I'm new to the forums and not sure if this is the right place to post.

I have always beleived I was born at 16:30 until some comments made by family members and the fact that transits never seem to happen when they are supposed to made me think of rectifying my birth chart. I used the Kepler software (using transits only) and have come up with some bizarre results and wonder if anyone can help/comment.

Notes: The lowest score of 399 is for the actual given time of birth.

marriage x 2 = score 149
romance begins = score 0
child born = score 0
father dies = score 0
partner dies = score 54
relocation = score 196

When I started rectifying I only checked the hour before and after the given time and the nearest peak to this is 16:05 with a score of 1709 - however there are no scores for fathers or partners death -these things affected me greatly so I would expect some points.

marriage x 2 = score 469
romance begins = score 1038
child born = score 103
father dies = score 0
partner dies = score 54
relocation = score 99

I then decided to do the whole day (very tedious work) and the highest score of 5630 is for 04:43 (almost exactly 12 hours difference from given time of birth and could lead to beleive that birth was AM rather than PM). The score being 5630 I think would make anyone beleive that this was the time of birth, however again, there are 0 points for both my fathers and my partners death. The massive score for romance begins seems to be the cause of this and while it was most definately the most important relationship of my life there are no points for his death! So this doesn't seem to add up.

marriage x 2 = score 420
romance begins = score 4984
child born = score 154
father dies = score 0
partner dies = score 0
relocation = score 0

There are 4 other peaks during the day of over 2500.

Would anyone care to comment/give some advise because I am totally confused now.

Pol
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hervaro



Joined: 13 May 2009
Posts: 111
Location: Antwerp, Be.

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Rectification with Kepler Reply with quote

polgara wrote:
I'm new to the forums and not sure if this is the right place to post.

.... I used the Kepler software (using transits only) and have come up with some bizarre results and wonder if anyone can help/comment.

Notes: The lowest score of 399 is for the actual given time of birth.

...
Pol


Erm..., forgive me my ignorance but what is Kepler software? And whence come the "scores" from, how are they determined?
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James E.



Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 105
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here you go:

http://www.astrosoftware.com/kepler.htm
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to ask the same question Hervaro did because, unfortunately, i'm not familiar with this method either.


Also, I have to ask about this:


Quote:
marriage x 2 = score 469
romance begins = score 1038
child born = score 103
father dies = score 0
partner dies = score 54
relocation = score 99


Are these the situations that have actually happened (and are being used as critical moments for the process of rectification) or something else? And what is this score actually suggesting (that it is not likely that such events would take place on a certain date or, again, something else)?

Generally speaking, I have never seen a rectification process based simply on transits. And, personally, I'm extremely skeptical when it comes to calculating the time of important events using such methods regardless of whether we are using them retroactively (in a process of rectification) or proactively (as predictive methods).

Rectification is basically the most complex astrological task and the timing of each important event calculated by using a specific astrological method needs a confirmation in another method or, preferably, in more than two methods. Personally, i would expect the announcement of a critical event of the same nature (and around the same time) to be visible in at least three methods (charts or calculations). here, we are talking about some major events and I would definitely expect to see a very sound promise in more than one chart (and, in case I understood your intro post correctly , I am very sorry for your losses).

Different astrologers use different methods and it is hard to tell as to how exactly a process of rectification should look like (although, some nice example can be found in traditional literature) but, if I were doing the rectification, I would certainly use 1)primary directions, 2) secondary progressions and 3) solar return charts (and examine the progressed Moon in them).
Transits (especially those promising the events of the same or similar nature) can often acts as triggers for specific events and, on more than one occasion, I have had a situation in my own chart where the event coincided with the time of a transit rather than the time promised by other predictive methods BUT only in cases where the estimated time (promised by other methods) fell around the same time/date (ex. directions say- Dec. 20th, progressions say Dec. 5th, solar return progressed Moon says Dec. 7th and then a transit triggers the event on Dec. 10th. So, as you can see, the difference is really small). But I would certainly not rely on transits to predict all the important moments in a person's life.

And, finally, although around 90% of people (if not more) don't come to the astrologer for the first time with a correct time of their birth, in most cases, the difference between the correct and the 'known' time of birth is a few (or a few dozen) minutes. So, I'd say that a mistake with PM and AM isn't really very likely but I'm not saying it is impossible either. I have such situations in my family- my mother wasn't sure about the date of her birth. My grandma went into labour very suddenly and gave birth to my mother at home. They couldn't even reach the doctor as it was very late at night (around midnight) and they didn't have a phone at home back then. A few neighbours helped them but then my grandma fell ill and they didn't know if she was going to survive at all. When she got well a few days later, no one could remember if the baby was born before or after midnight that night. Smile One of them said that "She could swear that the baby was born around 10 PM because her daughter had just returned from a party and she is only allowed to stay outside until 10. " Smile
Almost 50 years later, thanks to a thorough rectification process, we realised that me and my Mom share the same birthday (because she was born well after midnight) and that the neighbour's daughter had stayed at the party for much too long. Very Happy

Still, even even in this case we are talking about a 4-5h difference.

But, a difference in only 15min can also result in important differences in the chart of Native . Wrong Ascendant, wrong degree of the Moon, wrong degrees all over the chart! In the area where I was born, up until 1980. children who were born in the OR (who's mothers had to have a C-section) were all 'born' on round-hour. Smile My birth certificate says that i was born at 8AM whilst my mother says that she wasn't even taken to the OR until 8.15AM because the doctor was late. They woke her up around 8.40AM and the Astrologers had to work with these 25min during the rectification process of my chart.

My suggestion to you is that you should make a list of all the importat moments in your life that can be helpful in such a process and conduct a thorough rectification process with at least 3 predictive method. Another option is always to ask a more experienced Astrologer to rectify your chart. But automatic softwares are really not a good choice!

Cheers and good luck,

aglaya
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Ed F



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 301
Location: Ipswich, MA USA

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Isaac Starkman's Polaris program seems to be quite good. It is based on Topocentric primary directions and predefined point values for various configurations and types of events.

I've worked with primaries of various kinds and other predictive methods since the early/mid 70's, and have my own rectification based on decades of investigation into the subject. Isaac's program came up with a time one minute later - I consider that to be very impressive.

Use of the program still requires good astrological judgment, as there can be several competing high scoring times produced by the program.

Otherwise, I agree strongly with aglaya's comments.

- Ed
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charmvirgo



Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 4
Location: London

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used Kepler astro software and know what you are talking about. You enter dates of events, then tediously go through charts with different times to find which gets the highest scores. Score given for each event are points given for 'hits' made by transits or solar arcs or progressions etc.
I am confused that each different event I have entered gives a different possible birth time, and transits or other criteria also yield a completely different result from progressions. I have got nowhere and have given up.
At least you have a birth time to start with, it is even worse if you only have a vague time period or no birth time.
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You cannot bypass what is fundamental and expect to acquire knowledge.
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cosmicdolphin



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 730

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed F wrote:
Actually, Isaac Starkman's Polaris program seems to be quite good. It is based on Topocentric primary directions and predefined point values for various configurations and types of events.

I've worked with primaries of various kinds and other predictive methods since the early/mid 70's, and have my own rectification based on decades of investigation into the subject. Isaac's program came up with a time one minute later - I consider that to be very impressive.

Use of the program still requires good astrological judgment, as there can be several competing high scoring times produced by the program.

Otherwise, I agree strongly with aglaya's comments.

- Ed



Hi Ed

i have been trying to rectify my chart for years. I have 24 hour gap...I have heard of that software but have no idea where it is .. got URL for it?

Thanks
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Isaac Starkman



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Ed F wrote:
Actually, Isaac Starkman's Polaris program seems to be quite good. It is based on Topocentric primary directions and predefined point values for various configurations and types of events.

I've worked with primaries of various kinds and other predictive methods since the early/mid 70's, and have my own rectification based on decades of investigation into the subject. Isaac's program came up with a time one minute later - I consider that to be very impressive.

Use of the program still requires good astrological judgment, as there can be several competing high scoring times produced by the program.

Otherwise, I agree strongly with aglaya's comments.

- Ed



Hi Ed

i have been trying to rectify my chart for years. I have 24 hour gap...I have heard of that software but have no idea where it is .. got URL for it?

Thanks


See in : www.jamesalexander.de/PolarisSoftware.html
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cosmicdolphin



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 730

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Isaac
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dadsnook



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 24
Location: Boston area, MA in USA

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:35 am    Post subject: Kepler's rectification process Reply with quote

I have and use Kepler software. The rectification process permits 1) the choice of a range of progression, direction and transit methods, 2) the input of many event dates that will be tested with each "method" chosen, and 3) a number of event categorizations which utilize different weighting factors.

The rectification process makes a series of calculations for all of the event dates and situations using, successively, each of the chosen methods. I typically use secondary progressions, primary directions, solar arc directions, transits to progression and directions, transits.

The last rectification I did was for Ben Franklin who was born in the late night or very early morning and later taken across the street to King's Chapel in Boston to be baptized. It was interesting to see the range of numbers (based on the weighting scheme of the event categories) which were totaled up for the given list of dates (I used some 25 or 30 dates) and a variety of events.

Using the "best" time obtained, I check out the events with precession corrected solar returns and interim daily charts. These, as I rember, were quite appropriate to the natal chart and events on those significant dates. The process seems quite reasonable and the run-time not unreasonable for the great number of chart calculations required. Dave
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 396

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to reply to dadsnook's comments, only because I had the opposite experience with Kepler.

Even using charts with firm times and 30 events, the software was not able to hone in on the correct time. My own birthchart (ie. the one I know best) is a good example. It leads me away from the correct time (which is 1 min 16 seconds earlier than the birth certificate).

My experience parallels Ed's comments. I have found Polaris to be uniquely helpful in rectifying charts.

James
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