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AP - Dignities and Debilities / orbs for fixed stars

 
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 9:32 am    Post subject: AP - Dignities and Debilities / orbs for fixed stars Reply with quote

16 Aug 2003

Mark:

Can a planet like the Moon or the Sun get points for being direct of motion when they can only be direct of motion?

How do I figure out if a planet is swift of motion or slow of motion? My ephemeris doesn’t list that.

I notice that Lilly doesn’t use the partile conjunction when he’s talking about a planet being conjunct the fixed star Regulus, Spica or Algol. Can you use an orb of 5 degrees for those? For all the other aspects, like a planet conjunct Jupiter or Venus, he uses the partile. Why the exception for the fixed stars?

This is more of an observation than a question. It seems that the Sun will always get a lower point total (but not necessarily a negative one) because so many of the ways to get dignities don’t apply to it, i.e., the Sun can’t be either oriental or occidental, it can’t be combust or under it’s own beams, and it can't be retrograde either.

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Viola:

"First, can a planet like the Moon or the Sun get points for being direct of motion when they can only be direct of motion?"

No, they can't, because direct motion is their only motion. So, there's nothing special about that. As far as I know, the other bodies don't get points plus just for being direct either, but for moving faster than average when they do, or minus points when being stationed or moving retrograde.

And something I don’t really know, but have read about it - According to what Frawley says, there's an exception to the rule, i.e. Saturn. Being slow by its nature, it is supposed to function better when moving slowly. The logic behind this has to do with its very nature.

About fixed stars
5 degrees orb, even 2 and a half on each side seems a bit exaggerated for something so unique like a fixed star influence, doesn’t it? (This is a question to others, not rhetorical, because I don’t have much experience in horary) It just seems to me that if fixed stars can exercise its influence in orbs more than 10-20 minutes or so, we would have many more fatal occurrences in our lives, wouldn’t we? Consider 7 bodies, AC, MC and all those parts. Many of us would be outstanding personalities with tremendous ups and downs in life or whatever. As a result, there would be no outstanding personalities at all, because half of the humanity would lead extremely interesting lives, so we wouldn’t be able to pick out anyone in particular.

About astrosoftware having speed/motion calculation
AstroWin 1.6 is the best freeware I've come across having horary information included. If you want to download it, you'll easily find it via google or something, but make sure to download 1.6 version because the newer one has completely forgotten about horary. Once you have done it, whatever chart data you enter, under the window "data" you'll find "horary" which will lead you to “horary basics" and it displays a list of planets with their dignities, strength etc. with speed/motion included in the first paragraph.

Now if anyone knows about something better than AstroWin that’s free, let me know pls.

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Mark:

Thanks. And I just looked up in CA and the planets do get 4 points when they are retrograde.

About the orbs of the fixed stars, is that 5 degrees on each side, or 2.5 on each side?

Thanks,


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Viola:

Let me correct myself here, before I create more confusion.
A planet moving directly is given 4 points ( Sun and Moon not included). A planet moving fast is given two points (Sun and Moon included). Plnet gets minus 5 for retrograde motion, and if the motion is just slow -2. (Frawley "The Real Astrology")
Some people say - forget these indexes, but it seems to me I should pay much more attention to them than I'm doing now.

About the fixed stars in Robson's book "The Fixed Stars and Constelations in Astrology" the orbs for conjunctions and oppositions are given according to the magnitude from 7.30 for the stars of the first magnitude (which would mean 3.45 halforb), 5.30 for the second, 3.20 for the third to the 1.30 for the fourth magnitude stars. I don't know how it works in horary, it just seems to me that's too big orb for such an influence, no matter whether we're talking about natal or horary.

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Deb:

I agree that those orbs are too wide. As a rule of thumb I allow up to about 3 degrees for major stars and about 1 degree for those less than 2nd magnitude – but that’s just a personal opinion. The extract below is from an article I wrote about fixed stars a few years back and gives a more reasoned viewpoint.


Quote:
"In view of the extraordinary influences attributed to the stars, it stands to reason that they should not be used too liberally in interpretation. Most authors agree that the stars do not cast aspects and affect the planets by conjunction and parallel only. Many modem authors also claim that conjunctions must be within 1 degree to be effective although, traditionally, astrologers were guided more by the general nature, magnitude and position of the star than any predetermined limit. William Lilly used an orb of up to 5 or 6 degrees when considering the more important stars and the advice of Vivian Robson, in The Fixed Stars and Constellations in Astrology, is that an orb of up to 7.30 degrees should be allowed for a first magnitude star, decreasing 2 degrees per level of magnitude, down to 1 degree for a fourth magnitude star.

There is a convincing argument that the latitude of the stars should be an influencing factor, since those close to the ecliptic have a more direct effect than those with greater latitudes, and those with northern latitude wield their effect more directly in the northern hemisphere and vice versa. The value of this consideration can be seen where a planet falls upon two stars in proximity by longitude but widely separated by latitude. As an example consider Spica and Arcturus, only 20 minutes apart by zodiacal longitude but separated by an appreciable 32 degrees by latitude. Both are 1st magnitude stars of great importance. It seems sensible then that we should try to pinpoint their influence to some extent by considering in which hemisphere each will be most prominent."
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Joined: 15 Oct 2003
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AP - This is an archived post, but may still be responded to.
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