Dear Members

How to identify in a horoscope whether the native will have a love marriage or arranged one. If 5 and 7 connection is the answer for love marriage, does it mean in all the horoscpes this link is a must.

My second question is , which chart, Native or Horary , is more suited to judge relationship issues

Your views pl.

Kannan

Kannan I'd say that arranged marriages or marriage as social contracts are only likely if Saturn is somehow involved.

You could look at the native's chart and see if Saturn is an accidental significator, by ruling 7th, being posited in 7th, joined to any of the planets that rules marriage (Moon and Venus for man and Sun for woman) or joined to or ruling the lot of marriage.

Also you could try firdaria, if Saturn distributes and is somehow attributed to marriage during the likely moment of the union, that could point a arranged one (if that is customary in your country, obviously).

About your 2nd question, both charts, horary and natal can point the problems in marriage. If you see on the native chart the rulers of 7th and 1st joined in or from bad houses, joined to or represented by malefics and/or in bad essential dignity, that can point problems in general. In the horary chart you can focus at on problem at a time, instead of looking at broaden generalizations.

The first question must surely be judged against the native's social and cultural background. In India, arranged marriages are still the default option; in much of the western world, love marriages are. Classical Indian texts give combinations for marriage before the age of 12; today, most marry between 18 and 30. So perhaps the question should really be: what are the indications of a native's marriage deviating from the cultural pattern?

Having said that, strong enough chart indications do override cultural expectations. I once told a highly respectable, orthodox South Indian brahmin correctly (albeit with some hesitation) that from his chart, I would say he was divorced and had had at least one major affair -- something I would never have guessed to be the case without astrology. Incidentally, his name was also Kannan.

John Frawley speaks of the motives for marriage in his Horary Textbook.p. 194. Receptions between the lords of 1st and 7th are used by him to answer this question. If the lord of 7th is in the sign ruled by the lord of 1st, the prospective husband truly loves the querent. But if the lord of 7th is the sign ruled by the lord of 2nd, he is after the querent's money, for instance.

I think the same principle can be used in a natal chart.

I don't think that the 5th will tell surely about a love marriage. It could be marriage for the sake of having children, or because a child is in its way. A conventional marriage could be linked to the 10th house, or to the 9th, if there is a sense of religious obligation to marry, which is the case with Muslims and Hindus.

PFN wrote: Also you could try firdaria, if Saturn distributes and is somehow attributed to marriage during the likely moment of the union, that could point a arranged one (if that is customary in your country, obviously).
.

Thank you for your reply. Can you clarify more on "firdaria" pl.

Kannan

Martin Gansten wrote:The first question must surely be judged against the native's social and cultural background. In India, arranged marriages are still the default option; in much of the western world, love marriages are. Classical Indian texts give combinations for marriage before the age of 12; today, most marry between 18 and 30. So perhaps the question should really be: what are the indications of a native's marriage deviating from the cultural pattern

Having said that, strong enough chart indications do override cultural expectations. I once told a highly respectable, orthodox South Indian brahmin correctly (albeit with some hesitation) that from his chart, I would say he was divorced and had had at least one major affair -- something I would never have guessed to be the case without astrology. Incidentally, his name was also Kannan.

Thank you very much Martin for your thoughtful reply. Sage Parasara, Father of Vedic Astrlogy also said

"One has to consider sthaan, kaal and patra before giving predictions"
meaning Sthan (Country),Kaal (Time) should be considerd first , then only Patra (Horoscope) should be judged

I am also a south Indian Brahmin; Thank God I am not the same kannan

Thank you once again for your inputs

Kannan

Martin Gansten wrote:I once told a highly respectable, orthodox South Indian brahmin correctly (albeit with some hesitation) that from his chart, I would say he was divorced and had had at least one major affair -- something I would never have guessed to be the case without astrology. Incidentally, his name was also Kannan.

Martin Gansten

I am back again,Martin, with one more question. How did you find out from the chart that the native of the South Indian family was divorced. What were the planetary combinations you considerd. Was it a Western chart or Vedic chart you predicted from. Hope you won't mind sharing with me, if it is not confidential

Regards

Kannan

kannan wrote:I am back again,Martin, with one more question. How did you find out from the chart that the native of the South Indian family was divorced. What were the planetary combinations you considerd. Was it a Western chart or Vedic chart you predicted from. Hope you won't mind sharing with me, if it is not confidential

I won't give the full details, but as I recall, the 7th house held (a) Venus as ruler of the 5th partilely squared by Saturn (the wife took the children with her when she left); and (b) Mercury and Mars in close conjunction. Those were the placements I particularly noted.

My analysis was based on the sidereal (nirayana) chart. If you go back far enough in history, there is no sharp Indian/'western' divide; and as most of what I do is based on fairly early source texts, I can't really apply those distinctions to my chart work. But since I use the 'western' aspect system along with a sidereal zodiac, perhaps you could call it Tajika.

Martin

Good, I agree with your approach. Thank you very much for your kind reply

Kannan

I would agree with Martin Gansten's approach.From memory, I can recall that any aspectual relationalship (Vedic aspects) between Mars and Venus was said to make the native more licentious and more likley to break the tradition.Aspect of 5th lord on 7th house or 7th lord was another.

PD

And we should mention that Venus with Mars, or with Mars and Saturn together with some fixed stars make the native very lusty (and so prone to unfaithfulness), the very small ones which are in Aries tail, the Hyades, the tail of Lion, the waterfall of Aquarius.

margherita