skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

A relationship chart causing distress
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Deb
Administrator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This link will take you straight to the definition and explanation of peregrine:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig4.html

It's part of a larger tutorial on the use of dignities, which is worth working through in its entirety if you haven't already done so.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kren



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 38

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Deb! This is so excellent. Lots of studying to do. Such a great place you have here! Very Happy

Kren
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
HoraryQueen



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 104

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steve,

You asked about timing. You didn't give a time scale so I used the days/weeks/months timing. This would allow for a maximum of 30 months which I felt was sufficient for the context of the question. It seems you are a student(?), possibly fairly young although that just might be my impression (after all I did think you might be a girl at one point?!). If someone a bit older already in a relationship asked 'do we have a future together' I would use weeks/months/years to allow for maximum 30 years (although that prospect is scary, even for someone of my non-chronologically-challenged position!)

Not sure how familiar you are with this stuff (doesn't Deb have an url for it? Sure she must Thumbs up ) but once you have decided this overall timescale you have to decide which it is for each aspect. So as you seem to be aware cardinal houses = slow, succedent = middle and cadent = fast; fixed signs = slow, mutable = middle and cardinal = fast. Then you combine sign with house to get e.g. two middles = middle etc. Really, you can only get the 'extremes' if you get both the same, i.e. slow house and slow sign required for longest timescale. I did once do a chart (wrongly!) which had Moon smack bang on Ascendant and this implied increased strength and power to act on behalf of the querent. I should have used that as an indication to 'speed up' the timing from slow to middle, but didn't. Confused

So I think this answers two of your questions - haven't worked out how to do that white box thing you all seem to be into. Sorry to all viewers for any confusion!

Also you asked about the 'end of the matter'. I have to say I don't like to comment on other people's postings. I'm sure we all have different styles/methods and it's not for me to override. However, I personally would not look at 4th house for how a relationship will end up. For me this would be inherent in the question I think - as you will either end up in a relationship or you won't. If you are looking at contests/legal battles then what both parties are looking for is the 4th house - that is the prize or victory. Also in this particular case Mercury is ruler of 7th and I think the combustion there was an indication of your overwhelming 'urges' as we already discussed!

Deb says she didn't place enough emphasis on the Uranus - right enough, neither did I! I wonder if this is the indicator of the recent 'split' in which case I am still looking for something to happen in the next week with the Moon aspecting Mercury with very strong reception. I don't feel the Uranus will override these incredibly strong receptions, even though this goes against Deb's view. Maybe it is just wishful thinking as I must be developing a wee 'soft spot' for you Lala Happy . Also I don't think Saturn is an issue as Mercury is not in any of his dignities and also Mercury perfects the aspect to Jupiter first.

Also I haven't been looking at your subsequent chart - I think you should bin it!

However this is all just my opinion, for what it's worth.

Hope you are sleeping better and that this helps.
_________________
Susan,
Edinburgh.
www.horaryqueen.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
4 doorz



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 40
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
I hadnít put enough onus on Uranus, which is so powerful on the ascendant, and receiving the opposition of the Moon.

I now know from experience that Uranus does have a very real place in horary! (Thought we still only used planets from Sun to Saturn)
Deb wrote:
The essential quality of Uranus is separation, which is why it can be taken as a natural significator for divorce Ė things donít Ďbind togetherí under its influence.

What bearing is given to the moon-uranus opposition finishing (past 0 degrees) as opposed to pending.
Deb wrote:

This recent Ďblow-outí seems to be Moon-opp-Uranus in operation. It is very quickly followed up by a more helpful sextile between the Moon and Mercury, so hopefully the shock wonít hit you too hard and you can start to create a more friendly and relaxed attitude towards each other ... all the promise indicated by the main significators is capable of being blighted by Uranus.

So would it depend on how much damage Uranus-opp-moon causes? I mean I'm over it 1 day later, but last night she stated that 'it was best to limit it to uni-related matters' (total rejection?) Is there a method of summing the liability of a significant opposition followed by an easy aspect (per unit time of aspect for you maths freaks) to see which outways the other?
Deb wrote:

She is seeing someone else and has been made aware of your feelings,

Just confirming, is this because mercury cojunts her 5th house ruler? If this 5th house ruler is in her 11th, How would you differentiate between her having feelings for a friend and her having a love relationship with this friend (what would be some possible differences in aspects) Could you go as far as to look at the radical 5th of the friend (9th) or would that be stretching the turning of the chart a bit far?


Last edited by 4 doorz on Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
4 doorz



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 40
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read the article on time and have found it very helpful.

To decide which of our time units we shall choose, we consider the sign and the house in which our applying planet stands. Ignore the sign and house in which the planet applied to stands. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/timing.html
Question But how do you tell which planet is applying and which is being applied too? For the sextile aspect is it mercury or jupiter applying?

HoraryQueen wrote:

Then you combine sign with house to get e.g. two middles = middle etc.

And in this situation, what do you get (sorry for my slowness...lol) - which sign and house would be used here?

HoraryQueen wrote:

I am still looking for something to happen in the next week

How would that coincide with the fact that she wants no contact until uni starts again (2 weeks)

Also how would the rule, 1 degree from aspect = 1 unit of time, apply to this situation?


Last edited by 4 doorz on Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:15 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
4 doorz



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 40
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the side, would the extent of the uranus blight have anything to do with the sun signs of each party (i.e. pisces - sag vs pisces - cancer/scorpio)
_________________
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail, but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "That was fckn awesome!!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HoraryQueen



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 104

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Your question on which planet applies to which: the faster moving planet applies to the other. So Moon is applying to sextile Mercury as Moon moves faster; Mercury is also applying to Jupiter because Mercury is faster than Jupiter, etc.

However, you have to watch with these, as you must take the actual speed of the motion at the time of your chart, i.e. taking into account planets which are retrograde, stationary, very slow moving etc. For example another chart I have been looking at has Mars at almost 10 Leo and Venus at 11+ Gemini, so on the face of it Venus is separating from sextile and no aspect would perfect. BUT you must look at your ephemeris and see that because Venus has just gone direct and is very slow moving, Mars is going to catch her up and HE will apply to HER. Planets can therefore apply to each other, but in this case take the faster moving to judge the timing.

So in your chart Moon is in Mutable = middle and should be read as being in 7th house = slow which gives middle timing. As I was taking days/weeks/months we should give this one week per degree. What sort of time scale were you thinking of? If you are deadly serious and thinking beyond 2 1/2 years, then maybe this should be stepped up to weeks/months/years in which case a degree would be a month.

Timing is a real p!sser though Mad (as I'm sure we've all noticed). Do you take the number of degrees from Moon to Mercury as it stands in the chart? Or Moon to Mercury on the degree where they will perfect (since Mercury is of course moving on slightly from its present degree)? Also you could take the actual real time of when the aspect perfects, again either to the degree where Mercury is in the chart or to where it will be when the Moon reaches it.

I think it is sensible with really fast movers to take a 'symbolic' timing, since the real time when Moon hits Mercury is been and gone before you know it, but maybe with Jupiter/Saturn stuff it might be worth looking at the real time aspect and use your discretion based on what the querent thinks might be likely. (This is obviously what you are trying to do here given that you are not likely to meet till after your holidays.)

Another consideration here is that Moon is slow so just give it a little bit extra time. Looking at the actual degree of the aspect, Moon will apply to Mercury at 8 Virgo 34 so from 5 Virgo 9 taking a week for every degree then adding on a 'little bit extra for the tardy Moon' you would get to Saturday 17 July plus a few days extra. Don't know if that takes you to the end of your holidays or not - probably still a few days short it would seem.

Another thing you can do is look at the date/time of when she broke up contact with you. Note that Moon perfected to opposition with Uranus at around 1.5 degrees, then use that as a time scale for this chart and see if this makes sense (so for every 1.5 degrees that is the number of weeks to use, if you know what I mean). Hope you are studying something technical then it will be dead easy to work out!

By the way when she says limit it to Uni-related matters, this may back up what I had said about her being interested in her career. Perhaps she doesn't feel capable of sticking to the programme while you are out there trying to distract her.

Best wishes.
_________________
Susan,
Edinburgh.
www.horaryqueen.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
happygolucky



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 35
Location: Scotland

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi 4 doorz

Just got back from holiday. I must admit to being a complete novice to horary but I was interested in the Uranus aspects in the charts. Certainly in relationships Uranus can, in certain circumstances, indicate divorce, it is not always the case. My understanding is that uranus can indicate intense attraction but often of a short term nature. That of course doesn't mean that the short term part can't repeat. So other aspects have to smooth over uranus.

Uranus' problem is that is doesn't like to be tied down, is unpredictable, freedom loving etc.

Hope this helps.
_________________
Neil
Online Dating::Star Sign Compatibility


"Honesty's the Best Policy" - Miguel de Cervantes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am kind of late in coming to this thread but these are my thoughts on the chart. I haven't had a chance to read anyone else's comments, so these are mine alone.

Despite the womanís significator, Mercury being combust the Sun, the other aspects look pretty good. Mercury is amazingly strong in essential dignity, being in mutual reception by sign with the Moon and by exaltation with Jupiter, Steveís significator. So there is a really strong attraction and infatuation. The two are applying my sextile, with no other planets prohibiting the way. The Moon is also applying to sextile Mercury and then conjoin with Jupiter, but only after first being square against Venus first, so whatever Venus represents gets in the way of the two of them coming together perfectly. Venus rules the 3rd house of communication, so this square might show fights and arguments. Venus is also angular being in the 4th house, so its influence is strong. It is also retrograde, so any fight are likely to come up suddenly and unexpectedly, but cut to the heart of the relationship (4th house). Venus will also soon be squared against Jupiter, so the communication problems will be a continuing theme in this relationship. This is just a guess here, but I notice that Venus is very much under the sway of Mercury (the woman), being in its sign and triplicity. Perhaps that will express itself as a need to verbally dominate or to be jealous of the woman, as her significator, Mercury does not pay Venus the same level of dignity in return.

What is striking about this is how Steveís significator, Jupiter is in its detriment but by being in mutual reception by exaltation with her significator, a lot of that is relieved. So this relationship is a good thing for him. In fact, if he were not in this relationship with this Mercury lady, he would be in a very bad place himself. Without the mutual reception of this relationship, Jupiter would just be left in its detriment. This canít be a good situation. I think this shows him to be too dependent on this relationship. Iíd think a good relationship would have both the significators in some of their own dignities, but neither party here is in any of its own dignity. But Jupiter is in the 7th house, so he is really into this woman. The other thing that is striking about this is that even though her significator Mercury is combust the Sun, it has the mutual reception by sign with the Moon to help it out of that otherwise disastrous situation. Still, I donít we can just forget about Mercury being combust altogether. Even though Mercury is strong in essential dignities, it is still weak in accidental dignity. To put it into words, this powerfully charged situation is somewhat overpowering to the lady here. She is in his sign and exaltation and while thatís great itís also kind of scary, as she is so much under his influence. Just as the Sun dominates and blinds us so we canít see Mercury when its so close to it, maybe the woman here is lost in this very powerful situation. Another fact is that Mercury is not in any of its own dignities, so other than the mutual receptions involved in this relationship, she has no strength of her own. She is very much dominated by and dependent on this relationship. So given the earlier theme of a problem with communication, maybe the very fact that her significator is naturally the planet of communication and is blinded by the Sun will emphasize that theme again, showing her to be likely to avoid direct communication, to not be in touch (as he mentioned) and maybe, just maybe to have some secrets of her own. More on that in a minute.

The sexual elements here are also really strong. Her significator is in the 5th house, which is ruled by his very powerful Moon and given an extra push (not that it needed that) by the presence of Mars also in the 5th house. But the 5th house is also blighted by a very weak Saturn, which is both in its detriment and peregrine, and being in the prominent 5th house, is given an opportunity to cause some problems. Saturn rules both the 11th and 12th houses, so there could be some powerful, hidden secrets that will affect the romantic and friendship sides here. This is a real danger to watch out for in the future as there looks to be a series of strong contacts with Saturn in the future. First her significator Mercury will be conjoin with Saturn, and then the Sun conjoins it as well, followed by his significator Jupiter being sextile to it. Though this isnít strictly speaking an instance of collection of light between the two significators because of the intervening contact with the Sun, certainly some of Saturnís bad mojo will be passed between the two of them. Maybe the Sunís influence here will be to highlight the hidden parts that Saturn has as ruler of the 12th house. Also notice that the Sun rules the 6th house, so itís role here is not going to be a good one.

And the outer planets have something to say here too. First is the obvious opposition between Uranus and his significator Jupiter. Both are angular, being in the 1st and 7th houses respectively so they scream for attention. Does this mean that his idiosyncrasies, independence and sudden changes go against his own interests in this affair? Though this aspect is separating, and therefore its effects are waning, the Moon is bearing right down on an opposition to Uranus. I think that overall there is a pattern of him pushing too hard here, shown by his being so strong in accidental dignity and her being so weak in it, and that this opposition shows that he will have a tough time pulling back some. Remember, this woman is overwhelmed here. She has none of her own dignities and is combust the Sun.

But coming up will be another opposition between two more angular planets, Venus and Pluto. This opposition touches on that same theme of problems in communication (Venus ruling the 3rd) that cut to the heart of the relationship (Venus in the 4th) and present themselves as an obstacle that is to the point of obsession (Pluto), a theme that is front and center for all to see (Pluto in the 10th house). That idea I had about some hidden secrets coming to light is added to by Neptune being in the 12th house. His significator Jupiter is applying to be inconjunct with Neptune, an aspect that shows a tendency to look the other way. So Neptune here shows a willingness to avoid or to not see so clearly some secrets that relates to the 5th house. But like I said, the Sun will soon highlight this issue when it conjoins the 12th house ruler Saturn.

One other thing I notice is that there are not a lot of separating aspects here, while there are quite a few applying ones. This is a relationship that with very little past, either good or bad, but one with quite a lot in ahead, both good and bad. Another thing I noticed is the overall picture of this chart is a lopsided one, with most of the planets grouped in the south-west part of the chart, opposed by the outer planets, all retrograde, in the north-east part. (I do have that right for a southern hemisphere chart, donít I? Planets in the Australia culminate in the northern part of the sky, right?)

So, despite the very bad sign of the her significator being combust the Sun, this chart has quite a bit of promise, with so much mutual reception and angularity. My advice would be to try to let this woman have some space, and to work on the problems arising from a lack of communication and to confront the part that is still hidden from you in an honest, open way.
_________________
Mark F
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated