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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Pluto - getting on a bit

 
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Pluto - getting on a bit Reply with quote

It's 80 years today since Pluto was discovered (at 23 pm GMT 18 Feb 1930), with the Sun appropriately on the cusp of the 8th house at the time and place of discovery.

For details of the discovery see David McCann's discussion on this link:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/pluto.html#urdisc



Is it a planet? is it just a ball of rock? is it a planetoid? is it a little minor planet that wants a big orbit all to itself?

I think it is just terribly confused. It was born in the 12th house with a Sun-Neptune opposition - what chance did it stand?
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Scorpio Moon separates from square setting Mars and next applies by trine to rising Pluto, a nice description of the handing over of Scorpio's rulership. In fact, the Moon is the only planet that aspects Pluto (Saturn and Uranus are keeping an eye on their orbs for the discovery chart, but the inevitable meeting is approaching). Not a very promising welcome to the solar system club.
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Deb
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Scorpio Moon separates from square setting Mars and next applies by trine to rising Pluto, a nice description of the handing over of Scorpio's rulership.


It is nice. (I don't believe it for one second; but still, its nice ...)
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe it either, but I think it does tell us that Scorpio is the place to look for information about Pluto. If a person wanted to accept Pluto's rulership of Scorpio then they have a Moon-Pluto mutual reception to think about. In any case, the lunar aspect is probably telling us to look to the Moon for more information about Pluto and its symbolism, with Moon in Scorpio being an interpretive key – a Scorpio Moon in the 4th house, the house of buried treasure. Pluto is looking more interesting all the time.
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Deb
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Pluto is looking more interesting all the time.


It's almost too nice for Pluto. But we'll be kind to him today, only because its his birthday.

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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure of the basis of the discovery time used in David McCann's chart. While it might be quite legitimate I do not find a case provided for selecting this time in his article.

I have a different chart at astronor.com, choosing a time that is 45 minutes later. The exactness of this chart may be debated but I do provide reasons for selecting this moment. Scorpio is on the lower meridian of the chart and Sertan, the Scissors of the Crab, on the ascendant. If anyone is interested my contribution may be found here: Link

Happy birthday, Pluto! Some party in view of the current square to Saturn...
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Last edited by Andrew Bevan on Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
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Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This first chart bears a few correlations to my natal.. and I've just discovered Jeff Green.. Freaky!

And don't forget, Neptune is having his own birthday. Discovered at 26 Aquarius, right back where he is now. Happy 1st return to Neptune!
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amelia



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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still maintain that it has all been a horrible and unfair misunderstanding for Pluto. I think Neptune is really the outermost planet but because Neptune spends more time inside Pluto's orbit, Pluto is landed with being the outsider.

I am sure Pluto would be bigger as well if its constituents were less densely packed.

Can you tell I think Pluto is a sweetie and Neptune the true force of evil ...? Laughing
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amelia wrote:
Can you tell I think Pluto is a sweetie and Neptune the true force of evil ...? Laughing

Well, I am almost tempted to edit that statement, but then your personal experience of how the planetary principles may handle does have an amusing side to it that makes anyone reading it think. Wink
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank heavens -this is a day birth Smile

Sun's Firdar has been terrible for the Pluto- it was de-recognized as a Planet in 2nd cycle of Sun-Sun firdar.
Sun-the ascendant lord is in detriment in 8th.

2nd Venus Firdar starts from 2015.
In the first Venus Firdar-nuclear fusion was achieved and Pluto did the bomb thing in Venus firdar to claim notoriety.

I think in coming Venus Firdar- Pluto will re-impose itself and have a Firdar of its own Lala Happy

PD
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to tidy up a bit:

Pluto wasn't "born" in 1930; it was discovered in 1930. The chart therefore is a chart of a discovery not a birth.

Of all the modern hijacking of rulerships, Pluto taking Scorpio probably makes the most sense, but it is a case of; "if you're on the bottom there is no place to go but up."


Quote:
Can you tell I think Pluto is a sweetie and Neptune the true force of evil .


I like this. If we take the modern viewpoint that a modern planet "rules" those things that were invented/discovered about the time of the planet's discovery, Neptune rules mass slaughter, not Pluto. Neptune was discovered about the time of the invention of the first weapon of mass destruction: the Gatling Gun. It's discovery preceded by a short time the first two instances of total war, i.e. the nations' economies were almost entirely directed toward the fighting of that war. They would be the Crimean War and the American Civil War. Therefore, according to the moderns, Neptune is in charge of mass killings. Somehow they overlooked this in their rush to assign recreational drugs to Neptune because the discovery coincided with the first use of ether as an anesthetic. A connection that is a bit tenuous at best.

Happy discovery Day Pluto.
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Neptune you have to be willing to loose yourself to find yourself. I think Neptune blurrs perception and makes vulnerable to test dipositions and convictions before exposing the truth regarding strenghs and weaknesses.
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Olivia



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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always seen Neptune as indicative of mass terrorism and war, too.

Face it, all the outer planets fail the benefic test.
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've always seen Neptune as indicative of mass terrorism and war, too. Face it, all the outer planets fail the benefic test.

In which case you could all be in deep shit, considering the moderator has natal Neptune conjunct his natal ascendant. Laughing
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always been quite suspicious of Pluto. Its not a fashion statement to fit in with the astronomers. If that was the issue I would not be doing astrology at all.

Equally, its not the ideological objection of a hard core traditionalist. I do find Uranus and Neptune quite discernable in charts although I would never consider them sign rulers. Its just Pluto I struggle with. I confess that when I hang out with other modern astrologers I will often play along to keep them happy. Pluto denial can lose you a lot of astrological friends. For a lot of people its the poster boy for much of their misery. So its like you are denying all their suffering! Maybe I am just weak succumbing to such peer pressure. Embarassed

The thing is lots of times I look at Pluto transits I dont see an awful lot happening. Of course they are so dragged out something usually happens. But I remain a sceptic.

Maybe its our two dimensional astrology that is to blame. With an inclination of almost 18 degrees to the ecliptic Pluto is simply not where we think it is a lot of time. Rolling Eyes Should an object that is so frequently outside the ecliptic even count as a planet in astrological terms?

As a Kuiper belt object Pluto just seems to be a comet (aka dirty snowball) that has got into an orbit around the Sun. Quite like that other piece of astro debris so beloved of modern astrologers: Chiron.

Quote:
according to the moderns, Neptune is in charge of mass killings. Somehow they overlooked this in their rush to assign recreational drugs to Neptune because the discovery coincided with the first use of ether as an anesthetic. A connection that is a bit tenuous at best.


I dont see it as my role to defend modern astrology. However, in terms of historical events the Opium wars between Britain and China occured around this period. Shocked
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