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help with chart?

 
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Harlequin



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 99

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:37 pm    Post subject: help with chart? Reply with quote

Would anyone care to throw some light on this chart I'm stuck on? The question is, "When will I meet the new man coming into my life and how will I recognise him? The querent has been told there's a new man about to enter her life, the problem is she is still involved with a long-distance, part-time lover who's married! She seems to have realised this is an abusive relationship, it's been going on a long time and she's realised the lover is just using her and has no plans to leave his wife and commit to her. The problem I'm having is in identifying which planet represents the lover and which one the new man. Any insight gratefully received! Very Happy
Chart details are: 26 July 2004, 11:10 PM, Worcester UK, 12 degrees Aries rising.
Thanks for Your help! Smile
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ll take a stab at it. First of all we have to figure out what the significators are. You seem to want to find a significator for a future relationship, and I am not sure that can be done if you’re in already in one at the time. This essentially is a 7th house question, so the problem here is whether the 7th house represents your current situation or an unspecified future one. My thought was to take the 7th house ruler to represent the married guy and see if the chart is descriptive.

The first thing about this chart is that the Moon is void of course, so nothing can be done to effect the situation. The Moon is also in its fall and peregrine, and Venus (the married guy) is in the Moon’s detriment, so you are in a bad situation and this relationship with this guy (Venus) is bad for you. The interesting thing is that there are a lot of conflicting things here. First, as far as reception goes, neither the Moon nor your significator, Mars pays this married guy any dignity at all. So on one level you are not that into him. But Mars, your planet is also in the 7th house, so on that level you are clearly still into him. But since the Moon is void of course, that also means that it is about to change signs, so maybe this bad situation is winding down and a new phase in your life will start soon. Also take notice that the Moon is in the sign and triplicity of Mars (your significator) so you are feeling more like respecting yourself and not accepting this “long-distance, part-time lover who's married!”

But the biggest example of mixed signs in this chart is that close applying sextile between Venus (the married guy) and Mars (you). So no matter what you are telling yourself and hoping for, there is still an attraction and still perhaps some more drama to be played out here. Also take a look at Pluto. The man’s significator Venus is opposite it, while your planet Mars is trine to Pluto. I take Pluto to be a blockage of energy, something that represents long-standing poisons being bottled up that are about ready to be explosively released. Pluto is destructive, but it can sometimes destroy things that are bad for us. Think of how we use nuclear radiation to treat cancer. It nearly kills us, but hopefully it kills the cancer first. So this relationship is stuck in a bad place and tensions are building up to an explosive level.

Mars, your significator is in the 6th house, so you feel like you are working a lot and not getting much out of this situation.

The course of events as indicated by the previous aspects of the Moon are that first it was square the Sun which is in the 5th house and rules the 6th house. The Sun is very strong here, being in its own sign. So this aspect, which being a square was a tough one for you to handle, illuminated the truth of this romantic situation and shown some light onto how hard and demeaning this situation has been on you. Next the Moon was sextile Jupiter in the 6th house. As Jupiter acts to expand things, perhaps this contact helped you to expand your horizons and let you open your mind to the possibility of something more satisfying. Jupiter rules both the 8th and 9th houses The 9th house has already been mentioned in connection with Pluto, so maybe this contact between Jupiter and the Moon does represent a chance for your growth, whereas the opposition between Pluto in the 9th house and Venus (the married guy) shows how this relationship is blocking your growth. The last aspect of the Moon was that is was trine Saturn. Like you’ve said, you are coming to see the negative and limiting nature of this relationship. Since Saturn rules the 12th house, lets take a look at that blighted place in this chart. It is ruled by Saturn which is both in its detriment and peregrine. And the 12th house also holds both Neptune (illusions) and Uranus (instability and shocks). The 12th house ruler Saturn is in the 5th house, which puts some serious limitations on the nature of the romantic and sexual side of the relationship. The Moon’s contact with Saturn, plus the Moon’s previous contact with the Sun reinforces that idea that you are beginning to see the real nature of this relationship.

With a 12th house this bad, I wouldn’t rule out the chance this guy has another woman who is fooling around with.

However, like I said, there are mixed signs here that still point to a desire for a continuing involvement. Though the Moon is about to change signs, it still is in Scorpio, a dark and mysterious place that describes pretty well this situation. And the Moon still rules the 5th house, so the sexual element is still present.

So to sum it up, I think this chart describes the current situation, a toxic relationship filled with limitations and hidden surprises that you’ve been stuck in to your detriment. On one hand you've seen enough to move move on, but despite that you are still into him. There is nothing you can do to fix it, and perhaps that realization alone will help you to move on. Watch out though, because even though your head knows better, there still is a real chance to come together again.
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Harlequin



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 99

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:04 am    Post subject: Bless you Mark! Reply with quote

Hey Mark, thanks for that insight, bless you! One thing, I'm not the subject of the horary, (thank the Lord!) I was asked to look at this question by a friend.
So, you identify the current, long-distance lover as Lord 7. Why him as Lord 7 and not the prospective new partner? If Lord 7 is the old lover, how would you identify the new man she's asked about? The querent wants to know when she'll meet this new man and how she'll recognise him. That was the sticking point for me, how to identify these two men in the chart, and the reasons for doing so.
Gratefully,
H.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooops! My mistake. I didn’t see that you were asking about someone else, but other than that, I’d stick by what I said.

Read what I said in another topic called “When we think we've got a judgment wrong...” A horary may or may not answer the specific question asked. That’s what I assumed about this chart. But a valid chart will describe the situation and provide us with some useful perspective.

This chart didn’t answer her specific question but it did describe the current situation and thereby gave an answer to her problem. You can see that right? This chart is all about a situation that is hopeless (Moon void of course) and a situation that is fraught with built up toxic tensions (Venus, 7th house ruler opposite Pluto, which in turn is trine with Mars, the woman here.) Now your friend is telling you that she’s over this guy and that she wants someone more satisfying, and there are some signs of that here (Moon about to change signs), and that she’s become aware of the negative, limiting side of this relationship (Moon square the Sun, and then trine Saturn). But there are also clear signs that’s she might still be more into this than she wants to admit (Moon in the 7th house, and especially the applying aspect between her significator and the 7th house ruler).

Here’s another way of looking at this. Any relationship question will use the 7th house ruler to represent the other person. There is no house for someone’s next significant other, there is only one house for the one significant other, and that’s the 7th house and its ruler. So the question then is whether this chart best describes her future prospects for a significant other, or her current situation. I felt right off the bat that this chart was about her current married boyfriend, for the reasons I said above. There is no way I can stretch this chart to describe when she will meet someone else in the future. This one is clearly about something with a lot of past that may be close to being over, but isn’t quite yet. This is seen by all of the separating aspects of the Moon, and it being void of course. You can’t even make the case that this chart is describing her future prospects with someone new as bleak (Moon void of course), because of all the other signs of her recently becoming aware of things that are dark and limited. In other words, if the shoe fits, wear it. And this shoe fits a dark, toxic and limited relationship with a married guy.

Think of it this way. In answer to her question of “When Will I Meet Mr. Right?”, this chart’s answer is “You are still with Mr. Wrong. You may have seen the light, but you are still into him.” That is an answer to the question she asked. It might not be what she wants to hear, but in that answer is contained the only way to get to Mr. Right, and that is to get past Mr. Wrong.
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Harlequin



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 99

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:15 pm    Post subject: Good stuff! Reply with quote

Hi Mark. Thanks once again for your insight, much appreciated. Yes, I see what you mean about the chart giving her an answer, albeit not to the question she asked. I guess that if she'd been unattached and asked the same question, then it would have been legitimate to use Lord 7 as the prospective new man? Your comments have been very helpful, thanks! Very Happy
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes exactly. If she were free and well past that then she would probably get an answer to "When Will I Meet Mr. Right?". I'm curious whether either one of you thinks that I am right about the mixed signals here? Is she at the point where she's beginning to see the hopelessness of this situation, while at the same time still in the situation?
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Harlequin



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 99

Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark. Yes, I was confused about the mixed signals too. Given her admission that she has strong feelings for this man, I'd have expected his planet to have been in Rulership or Exaltation at least. He has no dignity at all to her Mars, and is only in Face and Detriment to her as Moon. So I'm baffled when she tells me she loves this guy. Spoke with her yesterday and she confirmed she's still in relationship with this guy, but wants to change the nature of it, she wants him to commit to her totally. Given that Venus has no Reception for Mars, I can't see him doing that. It's very confusing!
H.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see what you mean. Typically it's said that reception means the two planets want to get totether, and that aspects mean there is an opportunity for them to get together. This chart has the aspect without the reception. Perhaps this is a reflection of the nature of their relationship, that it's sort of half-way there. No one can say that they are fully and completely in love. Even if she says she is in love with him, it's at least partly in her own head. So it's not real.

I'll look at the chart later. But the bottom line is that without both the reception and the aspect, nothing will be complete.
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