16 by Estebon_Duarte zuli wrote:Yuzuru, I read your notes, I agree with most of them. Planets within 15 deg to Sun are invisible. Does it mean their action are invisible as well? Your opinion is that such a planet can not be a ruler of action. But I found out many natal charts disagree. For example, people who have in their charts Mercury very near Sun (ecpecially if the Sun does not see another planet) are very thinking, talkative, quick. They express exactly the nature of Mercury, do they not? Mercury does seem to be the exception in cases of Profession/Reputation, a combust to under-the-beams Mercury is considered a fortified significator when delineating the natives Mastery. This doesn't eliminate the need to consider the zodiacal state of both planets and the aspects they receive. Western Predictive Astrology by Estebon Duarte Independent Researcher AMA MACAA Natal Chart & Annual Solar Revolution Reports www.organic-astrology.com Quote Wed May 05, 2010 7:12 am
17 by Deb Mercury does seem to be the exception in cases of Profession/Reputation, a combust to under-the-beams Mercury is considered a fortified significator when delineating the natives Mastery. Is this a traditional principle or a modern assumption? I am genuinely asking because it seems surprising to me, but it is a long time since I have studied the traditional approach to the assesment of career. I also think that Mercury is generally not as heavily afflicted by combustion as the other planets, because its cycle is closer to and more obviously centred upon the body of the Sun; but on the other hand I never think the combustion is irrelevant or giving fortitude, and wouldn't have thought it helpful in matters of career except in the situations that require discretion/diplomacy or secrecy, etc. Hence this surprises me a little. Quote Thu May 06, 2010 8:35 am
18 by GR I'd have to wonder if Mercury in these charts is in fact not combust, being in its domicile, exaltation, or confines? Quote Thu May 06, 2010 2:53 pm
19 by Estebon_Duarte here's where I discussed the difference in combustion when Combustion is involved with a significator of Mastery with Yuzuru. http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 5&start=45 This is in respect to any planet the is conjoined the Sun when considered the significator of Mastery. Now most traditional authorities claim that Mercury is the planet least affected by combustion normally. Put the two together, and you have- "Mercury as a significator of Profession is in fact fortified by combustion." Western Predictive Astrology by Estebon Duarte Independent Researcher AMA MACAA Natal Chart & Annual Solar Revolution Reports www.organic-astrology.com Quote Thu May 06, 2010 5:27 pm
20 by Deb Hi Estebon I don't want to be controversial about the point, or disrespect your experience, but Now most traditional authorities claim that Mercury is the planet least affected by combustion normally This is what I'm curious about - whether that is generally reported traditionally. Does anyone have a traditional reference to suggest that Mercury is fortified by combustion? Personally, think it is quite a move from saying that Mercury is not so debilitated by combustion, to suggesting that it is fortified by the condition. I don't think it is even common to find traditional authors reporting that it is least affected - I'm guessing that's a relatively modern assesment. Thanks for answering anyway. I am purely curious. Deb Quote Thu May 06, 2010 5:52 pm
21 by Estebon_Duarte i'll dig out the references for considering Mercury the least afflicted planet when under combustion. We are not saying that Mercury is always fortified by combustion, though is fortified when considered a significator of Mastery. (I included the reference on the other thread) Western Predictive Astrology by Estebon Duarte Independent Researcher AMA MACAA Natal Chart & Annual Solar Revolution Reports www.organic-astrology.com Quote Thu May 06, 2010 6:18 pm
22 by Deb Thanks. I appreciate that. I'll take a look at the other thread too. Deb Quote Thu May 06, 2010 6:31 pm
23 by margherita Estebon_Duarte wrote:i'll dig out the references for considering Mercury the least afflicted planet when under combustion. We are not saying that Mercury is always fortified by combustion, though is fortified when considered a significator of Mastery. (I included the reference on the other thread) This is Holden version. He adds "not" note says "adds Bonatti" That a combust planet can signify is very strange, so I need inquire more....moreover because according Medieval authors Mercury with the Sun is proper to study because it's opposite to action. It would be interesting hearing Dr. Dykes, because he is an expert, and moreover translated the text, or finding other similar quotes. margherita Traditional astrology at http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com Quote Thu May 06, 2010 6:58 pm
24 by Deb To make more sense of what is being discussed here, this is what Estebon wrote in the other thread: Interesting is its [combustion] differing use when applied to different techniques, for example, in Abu Ali's On the Judgements of Nativities (pg.299,dykes) concerning the native's "Significator of Mastery" (Professional Significator); "And if the Sun aspected it or were with it, so that he would even burn it up with his rays, it signifies he is a high master, and of the greatest loftiness, and a writer for kings, and of great value among them, with a noble mastery and much teaching." I'll send Ben Dykes an email but I think he is currently travelling, so probably won't be able to check the thread for a while. Quote Thu May 06, 2010 7:48 pm
25 by ### How about switching viewpoints from the combust planet to the Sun regarding the chart native? So, regarding qualities of the native himself or herself, rather than questioning whether combust Mercury is weakened we can see how the Sun is increased ? takes on qualities and capabilities ? through Mercury. Therefore, the native's will and drive toward future personal development (Sun) are increased through the skills of Mercury. We can still regard Mercury as weakened when he is, for example, lord of the 2nd or 7th houses, thereby showing hidden or debilitated states regarding finances and marriage. In this case we are looking away from the native and to the life circumstances. Quote Thu May 06, 2010 7:59 pm
26 by Mark We had an interesting discussion on cazimi a while back on this thread: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4348 Some hellenistic sources refer to Mercury 'rejoicing ' when synodical with the Sun. More generally, I have found the dispositor of the Part of Fortune often very revealing about career. As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Thu May 06, 2010 8:18 pm
27 by Ben Hi all, I saw this thread and thought I'd just add a few words about the Abu 'Ali translation. The Latin text clearly says, "so that he would EVEN burn...". The Latin word is "etiam," "even." It's an intensifying word. In fact the Latin "so that" is "ita ut," where "ita" is also a kind of intensifying and emphasizing word. So that is what the Latin says. It is possible that in the manuscript Bonatti used (I don't have Bonatti in front of me right now), there was an abbreviation which looked either like "etiam" or "non" (not), which would make it ambiguous as to who was right. But one has to ask how the Sun could be "with" the significator without it either being under the rays or burned up. If it were only under the rays, you'd expect the text to say, "so that it is under the rays but not burned up," or something like that. I'm not trying to address the truth of the passage here, but only what makes sense from a translation point of view. Best, Ben www.bendykes.com Traditional Astrology Texts and Teaching Quote Thu May 06, 2010 9:32 pm