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Dione T wrote:Marguerita, why is mars invisible in River's chart?
Mars is very near to the Sun...

Anyway in CieloeTerra they recommend to their students a little free software called PLSV

http://www.alcyone.de/plsv_short_description.html

which stands for PLANETARY, LUNAR, STELLAR VISIBILITY

This is for Mars
Image
Mars makes its heliacal rising on the 17th September.

In CieloeTerra they use it a lot, because heliacal phases are very important, as we are discussing in this thread.

I know now there is another software produced by Rumen Kolev, it's expensive but it looks very nice seeing screenshot.

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

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Dione T wrote:
margherita wrote: Mars is very near to the Sun...
I thought you meant combustion (though they are a sign apart) but apparently you do not. Thank you for explaining and for the link.
No, in fact. Generally it is required that the planet is in its heliacal rising, or at least some phase to the Sun.

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

35
margherita wrote:
Just I'd like to add to Estebon that the problem is that significators of profession are Venus, Mercury and Mars and among these, Venus and Mercury are always quite near the Sun, so if we want consider them when they are invisible too, it means in practice we always should consider, so it would be quite useless choosing.
This is the clincher in my practice. We are talking about Professional
Significators being combust. Not generally combust planets. Margherita's statement is the clear understanding of what is implied when calculating the professional significator. Further, combustion should be considered in a different manner when delineating Mastery.
I'm not saying any of you should do it, I'm just saying that I do.
The reference is clear enough for me, without trying to find transmission errors.
If we treated every Specialized Technique by Generalized Astrological Rules then there would be no delineation and no real prediction. Somewhere we need to just practice it.
Western Predictive Astrology by Estebon Duarte Independent Researcher AMA MACAA
Natal Chart & Annual Solar Revolution Reports
www.organic-astrology.com

36
Deb wrote:
Given that the Abu Ali comment is affected by the possibility of confusion in transmission, does anyone know of any other ?fortifying? comments in other traditional sources? If not, I would be suspicious of the reliability of that one remark, even if Bonatti hadn?t questioned it.

Deb
I don't see Ben's remark as a suspicion of reliability. It seems that Bonatti either had a bad copy or Holden took a short-cut. We are never going to get all the ancient authorities to agree completely on any one thing. I do think it a broad jump from Ben's post to say "Given that the Abu Ali comment is affected by the possibility of confusion..."
Western Predictive Astrology by Estebon Duarte Independent Researcher AMA MACAA
Natal Chart & Annual Solar Revolution Reports
www.organic-astrology.com

37
I do think it a broad jump from Ben's post to say "Given that the Abu Ali comment is affected by the possibility of confusion..."
I'm sure Ben translated what he had correctly, but Bonatti is shown as having doubted its correctness. Things do get lost or corrupted in transmission - I have no idea if that's the case here, but I was making the point that there ought to be more than one single reference if this is a principle.

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About the River Phoenix chart on the previous page:

I don't see how a cadent 12th house Venus could be taken seriously as an indicator of profession. The Ld of the ASC (Mars) and the Ld of the MC (Sun) are conjunct in the 10th house. Jupiter is sextile the Sun and importantly conjunct the ASC. It seems like a waste of time to linger over Venus for profession considerations. In hindsight we know him to have been an actor, but I can't see Venus as a strong indication for anyone who didn't know who he was. :?

The Mercury, Venus, Mars technique seems to be a (weak) secondary factor at best for determining profession and should be a relatively minor consideration ? in my view. In this chart the Venus sextile to the MC looks more significant as a determining factor, but even then it doesn't really jump out and shout.


EDITED TO ADD: The Sun at home in the house it rules ? the 10th. The Sun wants public display and honors and uses the chart native (Mars as ASC Ld.) to achieve it. Maybe acting and celebrity chose him rather than he chose acting and celebrity. Celebrity ? a distinctly modern profession ? chose him via one of the best ways to get it these days: film and television acting. The Sun has its needs, you know . . . and it used combust Mars to fulfill them :). Yes, I am saying that the true profession here was celebrity, with acting as merely a means to achieve it. The death at age 23 on a sidewalk in a cloud of drugs may have cinched it ? celebrity assured.
Last edited by ### on Fri May 07, 2010 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hi Kirk,

I'd add that Saturn has some signification for actors, though I don't remember if my proper reference is Ptolemy, Rhetorius, or GR. :D Plus, if I'm adding in my head correctly, the Lot of Spirit is in Aquarius and that lot has signification for profession. I'd agree with you that Venus would not be the thing I'd be looking at for profession, directly at least (it is the domicile ruler of Saturn, however ...)

41
I'd add that Saturn has some signification for actors, though I don't remember if my proper reference is Ptolemy, Rhetorius, or GR
According to an earlier post, it's your own interpretation of Valens saying that Saturn rules those who have a false appearance (which I don't think is the same thing).
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=41524

I haven't had any experience of using this traditional approach to estimating career myself, but I found Margherita's analysis interesting because it seems to be exactly as Ben Dykes presented and demonstrated the technique during his recent lectures in London. Whereas Margherita refers to ptolemy, I think Ben was explaining the approach as described in his recent Persian translations.

42
Hi, Kirk

I completely relate to your comments. After seeing some hundreds of charts you start to see that the problem is deep (I personally use a "blind method" so hindsight is not an issue. That really shows that the "mechanical" method simply doesn?t work).

About venus in sextile MC, please see my second post in this thread. I would not be too worry about venus being in the 12th... for a planet to be in aspect to the MC, he will be likely to be in houses with some negative connotation anyway (specially 12th, 8th, 6th), so I think this is like counting the same thing twice.

Maybe this venus in 12th could me understood more easily seeing his love life or the houses that venus ruled.
Somewhere we need to just practice it
Agree. I feel this thread has become the combustion thread all over again. I will blame on mercury retrograde :lala Maybe we need some mystery charts.
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com