Sport, Etymology, THe World Cup, No Astrology

[Tom]

From time to time, not so much on Skyscript, but other places I've endured little digs about the American use of the word "soccer" to describe what most of the rest of the world calls "football." One astrologer in particular likes to poke fun at our custom, but I won't mention John Frawley's name.

I only learned this evening that the word "soccer" is of British origin and until quite recently, it was used interchangeably with the word "football" by the British to describe their favorite sport. Americans, we are told, use the word "soccer" to differentiate the game from their own sport they call "football." But once again our British cousins beat us to it. They used the word soccer to differentiate that sport from what used to be called "rugby football."

It's all here:

http://g.sports.yahoo.com/soccer/world-cup/news/its-football-to-you-soccer-to-me--fbintl_ro-soccervsfootball070110.html

[handn]

Hello Tom

Yes it's true the Brits invented 'soccer', though 'football' of course predates it.

I'm not sure what 'until quite recently' means really but 'soccer' in my lifetime hasn't been anywhere near as common as 'football' in spoken and written language.

When I was young no children were ever heard to invite each other to play soccer, it was always footie or football, and my father etc never talked about soccer season or what time/channel the soccer was on telly, it was always football or footie season and what time was the footie on telly. In my childhood I heard one person (an adult) use the word 'soccer' and he stood out like a sore thumb.

In the last 10 years the British have been sweeping themselves up in a pervasive wave of Americanisation and consequently 'soccer' usage has become more frequent. Our media, politics, fashion, and general conversation are more Americanised now than ever before and as a consequence 'soccer' is heard quite frequently where before it wouldn't have been used and it would've sounded very odd to most ears. It still sounds odd to mine, especially something like '5-a-side soccer pitches' which just isn't right! Even talking about a 'soccer match' sounds odd to me, I certainly can't think of 'soccer season' without a shudder and some puzzlement because it doesn't immediately bring to mind what it's intended to refer to!

Regards

H.

PS I'm glad you let John Frawley go unnamed

[Deb]

I happen to know that John Frawley is slipping Tom a pound for everytime he doesn't menion his name - (and that Tom is stashing it all up for a retirement yacht). In fact, has anyone in this forum actually met Tom Callanan in real life? Secret pseudonyms happen - how do we know that this entire thread is not another of John Frawley's shameless attempts to raise the profile of his book on Sports Astrology? (I'm told its good but its got too much football in it for me and the cover colour gives me a migraine).
But I digress from the off-topic theme. My point is this - I agree with Handn, its definitely football that I'm not interested in, having been emotionally scarred as a child for having to be quiet every saturday afternoon while the pools results were slowly typed on screen. It was tortuous for me because I just wanted to watch Dr Who which came on afterwards. Bring back the Daleks I say. Was it common for you all to do the pools in America Tom? I don't think it was, not the football pools anyway, and that's why its hard for other nations to understand how deeply football infiltrates every Brits' dreams. 8 no score draws ... sometimes, the tension of getting close to that was almost unbearable ....

[Tom]

"Until recently" referred to the article that I think said until about the 1960s the words were used interchangeably. Not being British and having been to London only twice, I can't say if that is true or not. I'll let the British fall back on their experience.

Don't know what to make of soccer "season?" I had no idea that was an Americanism. Here is the explanation, assuming someone needs it. Beginning in the spring as any astrologer would do, we (i.e. Americans), start with baseball season, and it goes through the summer as well. Baseball players are sometimes poetically called "The Boys of Summer." The autumn is the beginning of football season, the winter is basketball and hockey season. We're very sports minded here and anyone can conjure up weather metaphors with the seasons. We use sports or sport as Mr. Frawley says.

Professional sports overlap the tropical seasons and until about mid June we are saturated with Baseball, hockey, and basketball, not to mention tennis and golf. In the early autumn they are still playing baseball, and this is the beginning of the football season and they are still playing football when hockey and basketball seasons start.

As for John slipping me a pound, it is only because he lives in Poland and he can't slip me a pint. He is about to publish a book on the fixed stars and I'm sure I'm not the only one rooting for a new cover color and design.

I'm not sure I've ever met anyone from Skyscript in the flesh. I do exist. That is my name. I've endured the real John Frawley's jibes at the use of the proper use of the word football (Not only that, but I once engaged a London cab driver in a discussion over which was the correct side of the road for driving) That is my name and although now dated that photo is me. The photo is 6 or 7 years old come to think of it, but like fine wine, I improve with age and if I updated the photo there would be jealously in abundance around here.

As for Americanization in Britain, I'm no more qualified to agree or disagree with that than I am on the usage of "soccer." However I did note that on my last visit more than five years ago, I came up from the Underground (we call them, correctly, "subways") and the first business establishments I saw were Kentucky Fried Chicken, Burger King and Starbucks. "How thoughtful," I mused. "They want me to feel at home.

[Deb]

[Tom]

The Real John Frawley of the hideously colored text book, was informed by the real Tom Callanan that "soccer" is a British word. He replied:

[Chris Brennan]

Speaking of etymology, does anyone know what divination by octopus is called? Octopimancy?

See this story for more details as to why I'm curious:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/football/07/01/germany.octopus/index.html?hpt=C2

[Tom]

They say his success rate is "only" 80%. That's actually very good. Favorites win about 70% of the time. So if you only bet favorites, you'll win about that often, but you won't win much. The trick is to predict upsets, like Paul just did, and make your bets accordingly. With an overall percentage of 80% that indicates a good record picking upsets, and Paul is your guy.

I suspect however, Paul is working overtime so that he does not end up at a Detroit Red Wings Hockey game. For some reason or other, it is a custom to toss dead octopi, on the rink for good luck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_Octopus

I would never lie to you, but Chris, I can't answer your question.

[Deb]

[Chris Brennan]

[Tom]

In the US talking to yourself is a sign of enjoying an intelligent conversation.

[yuzuru]

[Tom]

You people need to get jobs spinning news for politicians.

[daz madrigal]

[daz madrigal]