Circumambulations/Directing through the bounds 1 by Lazarus I'm wondering if anyone has had any success using this technique. I am currently trying to test it on my own chart first using the Ascendant and Ascensional times and also using the Moon, which is the Hyleg and very powerfully placed, but instead of using Ascensional times I use Ptolemic PDs to direct it through the bounds. In any case I have thus far found some minor hits with both releasers but have not been wowed or totally convinced by the efficiency of this technique, especially when compared to the much cruder Firdaria (I call it crude but I am continuously amazed at its accuracy, though it seems to only be accurate in conjunction with other techniques like profections and solar returns -or- it just doesn't give us the whole picture one might say, and perhaps there is no one time lord technique that does). I am basically just wondering what kinds of results other people have gotten using it and if perhaps it is best for a certain topic of life specifically? *I should also add that I have taken Ben Dykes' workshop on the subject and while it appears to work very well for him it still has not clicked for me like firdaria, profections, and ZR has in terms of seeing results or correlations. Quote Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:37 pm
Re: Circumambulations/Directing through the bounds 2 by Martin Gansten Lazarus wrote:I'm wondering if anyone has had any success using this technique. I am currently trying to test it on my own chart first using the Ascendant and Ascensional times and also using the Moon, which is the Hyleg and very powerfully placed, but instead of using Ascensional times I use Ptolemic PDs to direct it through the bounds. I use this all the time (with Ptolemaic directions, as you say: directing the Asc by oblique ascension, the MC by right ascension, etc), and I think it works like a charm. But I use a sidereal zodiac to determine the terms/bounds, which of course alters things (although the promissors are unchanged). Another important factor, mentioned in several texts but really brought to my attention by Konrad on this forum, is what planets are transiting through the terms in question, particularly at the time of the annual revolution. The placement of the chronocrators in the revolution is also very revealing. https://astrology.martingansten.com/ Quote Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:26 am
3 by Lazarus Interesting. Do you use them in tandem with Firdaria or do you just use them instead of. Also I am assuming that in the SR chart any planet in any bound that the chronocrator rules in any sign? This is what I have understood from On Solar Revolutions. Also I am curious about directing any planet/point in this manner to see if one could get a general idea of what is going on for the various areas of life. Have you tried this? Quote Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:13 pm
4 by Vasanth Hi Lazarus, I am no expert in 'directing by bounds' technique. But if you really want to investigate this technique, I suggest you the 'Rectification Manual' by Dr.H. Also the book 'America is born' has comprehensive analysis of distributors and participators for the Ascendant. Basically from what I understand, the distributor accounts for around 50% of the effect, and the recent participator another 50%. One understanding is that since the participator is a planet in the natal, its effect could be ascertained easily than the distributor. The distributor is what I believe adds more color and brings in new things than what could be easily read from the natal. Also to start off and keep things simple, it would be better to concentrate on the Ascendant or Midheaven's distributors and participators. When you start directing planets and their aspects as well, things does become quite complex. But probably that is the key as to how a natal chart gets a window to the full zodiac. To get a gist of this complexity, check the analysis of 'directions of jupiter' by Dr.H here -> http://regulus-astrology.com/pdf/Review ... t_2009.pdf Also since there are multiple techniques occuring at the same time - fidaria, profections, directing by triplicity, solar returns, ... each one brings its theme to the table; and what we see is a mixture. To separate out the different layers for understanding is quite an art! Hope this helps. Vasanth Last edited by Vasanth on Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:18 am, edited 2 times in total. Quote Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:44 pm
5 by Vasanth Adding one more invaluable reference, related to the topic http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dorotheus3notes.pdf What I found useful (at least theoretically) -> When the directed ascendant is in the terms of a malefic or (more severely) aspects a malefic; the ray of a benefic into the term of the directed ascendant is a protective influence. Quote Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:58 pm
6 by Martin Gansten Lazarus wrote:Interesting. Do you use them in tandem with Firdaria or do you just use them instead of. Instead of. My first contact with traditional astrology of any sort was with the Indian tradition, so I've experimented with many techniques similar to firdaria over the years, but I find that directions top the lot. Also I am assuming that in the SR chart any planet in any bound that the chronocrator rules in any sign? This is what I have understood from On Solar Revolutions. Do you have a reference for that that I could look at? It's not how I use or understand the technique. Rather, if the directed significator is, say, in the terms of Mercury in Sagittarius (17-21 degrees), then in the revolution I look for any planet occupying or, secondarily, aspecting those degrees. Also I am curious about directing any planet/point in this manner to see if one could get a general idea of what is going on for the various areas of life. Have you tried this? I have, and I think it's useful. What points are most relevant will depend on the setup of the natal chart, but the Asc and MC are always major significators. https://astrology.martingansten.com/ Quote Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:41 am
7 by Lazarus Thanks for these sources. I will investigate further. I finally had a break through in using the technique once again yesterday just focusing on the Ascendant in my own chart. Just looking at the what the bound rulers would have to say about the general spirit of the times is actually very revealing and in many ways spot on again in a very general manner. But this is enough for me to believe the technique is not only valid but highly useful. Both of your responses have been helpful in the sense that I felt urged to take a closer look. Thanks. Quote Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:37 pm
8 by Lazarus Martin, I will have to look in the text again to be sure but there was a footnote given by Ben Dykes when discussing this technique where he mentioned this idea and said it was probably a case of what is called (or translated) as "neighboring" in Hellenistic astrology. Quote Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:39 pm
9 by Lazarus Okay I found it: "Likewise one must consider which ones of the planets are ejecting their rays, and in whose ray the distributor appears, and which of the planets was in their bounds, both in the nativity and in the revolution" - pg 137 On Solar Revolutions translated by Ben Dykes Also Dykes, in a footnote on pg 32, in his review of this technique in the introduction to the text, writes: "My sense of this passage is that perhaps one could examine a planet in any of that distributor's bounds, and not just the one in the distribution itself. This would be akin to the Hellenistic concept of "neighboring". In fact, Abu Ma'shar might really mean neighboring: if a planet is aspecting the distributor from any bound belonging to that distributor" (footnote 170). Quote Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:46 am
10 by Martin Gansten Thank you. I?d forgotten that footnote of Ben?s. Personally, though, I?m fairly convinced that what Ab? Ma?shar meant was the terms (or bounds, if you prefer) through which the significator is currently directed. That seems to be the general tenor among the Arabic-language authors who discuss this technique. I had a look at ?Z?d?nfarr?kh al-Andarzaghar on Anniversary Horoscopes? by Burnett and al-Hamdi (because I?m lazy and I happen to have it in an easily searchable format, unlike Ben?s translations), and it has several passages of this kind [the underlinings are mine]: ? it is necessary for you that you judge to that native in this year that he will get a high position and wealth and good and much good-fortune, especially if the s?lkhud?h [ruler of the year] and the j?nbakht?r [divisor, which Ben translates as ?distributor?] aspect that term in which the prorogator is. And if the division is to the malefics and that malefic does not help the native in his base-nativity, but it is one of the ones that harm, and you see in the base-nativity and in the change of the year that that malefic aspects the term in which the prorogator is, and the benefics do not aspect, and you find the s?lkhud?h and the j?nbakht?r and the Moon and the ascendent of the year injured, then it brings a judgement against that native that he will die in that year. (This was translated directly from the Arabic, unlike Ben?s previous translations but like his forthcoming ones, which I am eagerly anticipating!) https://astrology.martingansten.com/ Quote Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:09 am
11 by Lazarus Thanks for those passages. That is helpful. I think I will continue to experiment with both approaches as the concept of Neighboring makes a lot of sense to me in this context. Quote Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:43 pm
12 by pankajdubey I am very new to this directing through bounds but I am only getting accurate timing by 1degree of term= 1 year . I just do the mental addition, ignore the Obl ascension or right ascension. Somehow, I find it much easier to handle than the primaries and the rotating earth or turning point.How did the Indians miss this one or there would have been sub-periods and sub-sub periods like other Dasa periods . PD Quote Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:37 am