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Horary.co chart discussion - several concerns about work
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astroswift



Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 19
Location: USA

Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I tried to post a response, a long analytical one, but I guess it just did not post, maybe there was a timeout or something.

Anyway, here is a synopsis, as I'm running out of time---

1. She will keep the job, but the pay will be reduced. Mercury is in his own terms and applying to Venus-Moon, both dignitaries of Taurus. Both are also in terms of Saturn, which is retrograde and in fall in 1st, both rule 2nd and 11th('money from the position'). Both are square Neptune in 6th, however so she will probably leave eventually due to the mental stress of a power struggle.

2. Taurus placements suggest peaceful nature, but not in mind--Mars in 12th(Whole Signs Equal) and Neptune in Aquarius squares suggest mental struggles.

3. He will be fired. Mars is in terms of Mercury, as is Mercury himself, and this will happen while he is on suspension.

Hope this works. I apologize for the very brief response but as I said I am out of time and somehow I failed to post my original response.
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handn



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it's just me....

These past few days I've been starting to think... because most of us are in broad agreement.... that we've really mucked this one up!

I've been trying to go back over it and think 'what have I missed here...' especially something obvious, hidden in plain sight!
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Deb
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Handn

I think the real lesson in this horary is to always be aware of the planetary cycles of the significators. For example, the judgement of the chart could be completely wrong, if it isn't noticed that Mercury is about to retrograde and return to the square of Mars. Once that is noticed, I think it is obvious that the querent still has some problems to work through.

I have just uploaded the PDF file with the full chart details and Tanit's judgement. Again, I think this is a very good, clear demonstration of why Tanit came to the judgement that she did.

http://horary.co/pdf/prof1_full.pdf (direct link to PDF file)

It would be great to get a bit more post-revelation analysis and discussion on this chart. I'm wondering if this situation has fully played out yet.

Regards
Deb
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Tanit
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm wondering if this situation has fully played out yet.


Yes, I suspect Saturn retro in the 1st will have some more to say.

Others wondered about the 9th house, and I think it might relate to the nature of the job itself. The job has independent authority, so they have a legal right to treat their employees however they choose. She has to do what they say or she will lose her job quite easily. I also hope that my warnings to keep her temper in check is part of the 9th house placement - using her own wisdom (or remembering the horary) to keep the peace. That appears to be the case so far because she has had at least one other issue on the job recently (last month) involving management where she behaved very well.

I do wonder if it may eventually end badly, or hopefully she might reach a point where she decides to leave on her own. She's been there for many years, and is a bit reluctant to change (probably also the Taurus indicators), so I suspect it might be by force more so than choice. I guess tough economic times also make people do what they can to get by.
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb:
Quote:
I'm wondering if this situation has fully played out yet.

I second that Thumbs up

What puzzles me the most is the fact she hasn't experienced any cuts in her salary, although the preponderance of testimonies seem to lead to such a conclusion Confused

Goran
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Deb
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the 2nd house isn't afflicted and its ruler is strong essentially, so maybe the pay is not the real issue. From the way it has been described the querent seems to be unhappier than she was, and is settling for less, which is probably a wise move for now because the chart doesn't show her as having viable alternatives to explore in the short term. But it doesn't describe a position that suits her either - it seems like she has had to accept a compromise to keep her job.
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Paul
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tanit and Deb, that was really interesting and useful!

One thing I was 'waiting' on was what signification would be used for the boss 'cos it kind of stumped me. Obviously a judgement was reached without even needing to differentiate exactly who the boss was but, if needed, what signification would someone use in this horary? Or is it simply a matter of determining the answer to the question introducing as few variables as possible along the way?

Like everyone else I was expecting a pay cut, I guess the strong dignity and perhaps pof as well were telling us otherwise all along, and I wonder if in fact we all 'projected' into the chart general fears and worries about finances that naturally are occurring due to the recession. We almost expect someone to have a pay cut in their working field, despite the chart quite clearly indicating strong essential dignity etc for the second house.
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astroswift



Joined: 17 Sep 2010
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul,

In my first posting(which apparently I was unable to post)--I put the boss in the 7th House, as the principle person with whom the querent was apparently dealing in the situation. In fact, we can see Pisces as having a hand in each question--Neptune in 6th in Aquarius a)fear of unemployment in the first question b)the querent thinking her boss is 'crazy' or unstable in the second and c)the other employee's misbehavior due to drug use in the third, and his possible unemployment. Each one seems to hinge on a decision of the boss, which I put in 7th. 7th is also the 10th from the 10th, so if her concern was initially for her position, 10th would be the query house, and perhaps the boss can be 'shoved' into the 7th.

I am a 'modernist' by the way(for lack of a better term, and I am loth to 'lump' myself in with a group), however I respect traditional techniques as well.
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Carol



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:
Quote:
Others wondered about the 9th house, and I think it might relate to the nature of the job itself. The job has independent authority, so they have a legal right to treat their employees however they choose. She has to do what they say or she will lose her job quite easily. I also hope that my warnings to keep her temper in check is part of the 9th house placement - using her own wisdom (or remembering the horary) to keep the peace.


Another reason those main significators might be in the 9th is that the querent and her coworkers, like any group of oppressed people in a workplace, were basically just seeking some justice first and foremost.

Also, regarding the role Mars plays, it's interesting that it's in the 11th (friends), comes from the 3rd (communication/information) with Scorpio on the cusp, and was right about on the cusp of the 12th (secrets/self-undoing) by the time it squared Mercury the 2nd time.

This seems to coincide with the boss's anger over the confidential information the friend had told her (inadvertently implicating the querent), which seemed to do the most damage as far as making the querent's working conditions and her relationship with her boss even worse.
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Myro



Joined: 01 Aug 2010
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the role of Mars, also,
The Antiscion of the Ascendant is Aries.
Regarding finances, also,
The Antiscion of Jupiter is Libra 9 degrees 10 minutes, conjunct Part of Fortune - not regarding Jupiter as the co-worker's significator in this instance (one query at a time, one set of significations at a time even when the various queries to the same chart are linked).
Ezra.
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Paul
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I suggest that this horary, and also the missing engagement ring horary, are posted to this thread:

Index of Horary Charts With Answers
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4728

Then all the 'answered' horary questions are easy to find.
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Peter_Fox



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ye.

WARNING: Some untraditional techniques used below. Also, don't use Arabic Parts, Stars, and Asteroids because they not only don't work for me, they result in wrong answers.

Here is my take on this benefitting from the use of the Retroscope (as outcome has been published):

For significators, I used the Moon for the Querent to allow use of Mercury (L10) for the boss. The colleague is L7 Jupiter. The Work Environment is L6 Saturn Rx in 1. I noticed that this implies the question is destroyed but I went forth undaunted. Maybe this means the querent has really asked the wrong question.

Work environment: Saturn Rx and peregrine shows the current situation well. Neptune in 6 shows the involvement of drugs in the workplace. Approaching square between Neptune and Moon shows that this will continue to be a problem for querent.

The Boss (Mercury) actually has a good opinion of querent (Mercury exalts Moon), regardless of how she may or may not express that. This bodes well for her keeping her job.

The Colleague (Jupiter) hates the boss (Mercury) shown through Deteriment and Fall receptions. That's understandble based on what we know about the boss and what must be a conflict with the drugs. Nevertheless, Jupiter is in its rulership so I say he stays on the job but may decide to quit over his feelings for the boss.

Her career is also shown by L10 Mercury. It has some essential dignity and receptions to querent imply her employment there continues. However, Saturn approaches an opposition to Saturn (Lord of Work Env.) which shows an upcoming adverse change - the shift change.

Work Env. (Saturn) has approaching trine to Querent (Moon) which implies that the shift change will be beneficial to querent as it will improve the environment by removing contact with the strange colleague. Perhaps it will also insulate her from the boss so an adequate relationship can be maintained. The change itself (Uranus) approaches sextile to her (Moon) implying that it will be a good opportunity for her.
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Peter
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Tanit
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Boss (Mercury) actually has a good opinion of querent (Mercury exalts Moon), regardless of how she may or may not express that. This bodes well for her keeping her job.


I would say that a planet should also describe the person, and Mercury in Taurus would not describe the manager, especially from the querent's and other employee's points of view. Taurus is a sign of Venus, who is a harmony-seeking planet and is socially adept, etc., especially since Venus as dispositor is well placed. The boss is socially awkward, unintelligent, a poor and combative leader, which doesn't seem to fit Mercury in a sign of Venus, even if it squares Mars. The querent astrologically as well as descriptively fits Mercury here. Her natal shows Mercury and Venus in Aquarius (a socially aware and intelligent individual), and a trine to Gemini Mars with an Aries sextile from Moon/Jupiter in the 3rd (opinionated).

Also, it has been shown by her behavior at this time and since that meeting that she does not hold a good opinion of the querent. The querent has been on excellent behavior since this event and is never late, etc. as to not excite any reason for her to fire her.

There is a superior above the manager that holds a good opinion of the querent, though, and he may be one of the reasons she is still around. Many people are fired at this company, and to me it seems rather angry/hostile. I have been on the grounds and do no like the energy of the place (I could not work in such an environment!). It has a malefic vibe, which may be in part Saturn here.
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Peter_Fox



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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I would say that a planet should also describe the person, and Mercury in Taurus would not describe the manager, especially from the querent's and other employee's points of view. Taurus is a sign of Venus, who is a harmony-seeking planet and is socially adept, etc.


I disagree with this assertion. In Horary astrology, the planets used as significators are significators simply by virtue of ruling the houses associated with them. It is quite possible for Mars to be the significator of a docile female person and venus the significator of a violent, ugly man. In Horary, the houses are the primary thing. Planets are secondary and signs are tertiary. This ranking is very different than that of Natal Astrology.

John Frawley, in his excellent book "The Horary Textbook", addresses this topic quite well in the first three paragraphs of Chapter 4 on page 30. In the third paragaph, Frawley says "This is even so if the planet does not appear to describe that thing. ... The planets are the actors in the drama that is in the chart; when the casting-director is handing out the parts he evidently doesn't take much time choosing who gets which."

I have seen bosses that treat people like dirt in spite of the fact that they like their employees' work or even admire them. It's usually a "power trip" rooted in insecurity or envy. Sometimes they feel threatened by good employees. People are complex and their actions are often based on things that are not perceived by others.

Ultimately, you have the advantage of being able to dialogue with your client to test multiple possible interpretations and select the ones that best fit the situation. Perhaps a different significator would work better than the one I chose. However, that should be based on Horary astrology considerations.

Good luck and I hope that you follow-up later by telling us what ultimately happens to your client and the colleague.
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Peter
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Tanit
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
disagree with this assertion. In Horary astrology, the planets used as significators are significators simply by virtue of ruling the houses associated with them. It is quite possible for Mars to be the significator of a docile female person and venus the significator of a violent, ugly man. In Horary, the houses are the primary thing. Planets are secondary and signs are tertiary. This ranking is very different than that of Natal Astrology.


Most traditionalists would disagree with Frawley here. Lilly is extremely specific about physical and character descriptions in horary. I always find them to be reliable in my own charts. That's one of the reasons people often have the same astrological themes in horaries, were they to ask multiple questions over time.

Quote:
Ultimately, you have the advantage of being able to dialogue with your client to test multiple possible interpretations and select the ones that best fit the situation.

She's actually an elder sister! Laughing I only really read for family and friends. But I will of course be able to follow this much easier by being connected to the querent.
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