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Natal chart of lonely single male
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dmause



Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 78

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cor scorpii wrote:
Quote:
Forgive, but how is Pisces a sign of disapointment in relationships when it is the 7th sign


This kind of oversimplified interpretation must come from the teachings of "modern astrology".... according to them, Pisces are ruled by Neptune so the partners always tend to slip through your fingers, are unreliable and "weak", prone to alcohol and/or drugs, need constant strong guidance or else they lose themselves in the rough realities of this world, 'romantic' souls which tend to see the world through pink lenses,dreamers searching for someone to rescue and save or dreaming of being rescued and saved by a 'soul-mate', hard to stabilize, 'artistic', often unreachable and unable to commit, 'sensitive', etc, etc. all leading to disappointment.

That
is precisely why I turned to good old tradition and sound astrology it represents Very Happy

Goran


Willelm Wulff used Neptune and seemed to be right. Ray Murphy found Neptune rising in the largest percentage of astrologers as well as quarius Sun.
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waybread



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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully Juliana will respond to say what she meant about Pisces on the cusp of the 7th. I think very highly of her work and generosity of spirit. We both participate in another astrology forum and the "natives" there appreciate her chart readings.

To me, the interpretation of the sign on the 7th house cusp boils down to the condition of the accidental house cusp ruler, which in this example (Pisces) and in modern astrology would be Neptune. It is the modern ruler of alcohol and in a general (not specific) sense of problem drugs. Neptune has two key meanings. (1) It is not an every-day reality-based planet. Now you see it, now you don't. It represents beautiful illusions and bitter disillusionment. (2) At its core, Neptune shows a longing to merge with something greater than oneself and one's ordinary material reality, such as the divine. This requires an erasure of one's sense of unique identity and a distancing of oneself from mundane existance. A well-positioned Neptune can promote a healthy sense of spirituality or artistic creativity. With a "challenged" Neptune the person may seek ego erasure through alcohol or drugs.

Obviously if a person has a mix of favourable and unfavourable aspects to Neptune (and/or the DC in this example), you have to do a kind of bicycle tour around the chart to collect more information about its plausible expression.
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Paul
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jennvt

Is this the chart of someone who knows that you're examining it?

Really wouldn't be comfortable interpreting someone's chart who isn't even aware that someone has been looking at it. Not sure if its a policy of the forum that people can only post up charts of those who are aware that their chart is being examined by the original poster. Otherwise it would just be snooping.

That said, a couple of more generic things which dont' just apply to this person. Not sure if you're "allowed" use modern techniques on this forum, I know some people are skeptical of them, others outright critical of them. However someone posted something like pisces on the descendant indicates disappointing relationships and then it was suggested that this must be the muddy thinking of modern astrology. Actually, I've never heard this idea before in any modern astrology book I've ever read. I can only assume it was a misunderstanding by the poster or it was their own idea/theory.
Personally I use modern techniques looking at natal charts as well as classical. I do have a problem with the sign = planet = house approach that you sometimes see with modern astrology though.

I'll interpret the chart myself if the OP says that the person whose chart it is is aware of it, but just on a general sense, I have a few problems with some of the comments here so I'm not sure my interpretation would be welcomed tbh. There seems a lot of 'sign' focus. Pisces on the descendant indicates disappointing relationships, moon in aquarius sabotage their relationships etc. I disagree with anyone who even says that this is what modern astrology says either because I've not read this anywhere, but if I'm wrong then I'd like to read what author suggested these things.

Personally I do use modern astrological methods when looking at a natal chart. For me the aspects between Moon, Venus and Neptune are the most telling. Not what sign is on the descendant. If Pisces descendant indicating disappointing relationships, then that means that Virgo risings suffer disappointing relatinoships. Not really following that logic.

If anything I think the Moon-Venus-Neptune TSquare is the thing to examine and I'd be asking questions about the relationship with the mother. Neptune isn't just about being drunk, writing poety and losing things. Neptune adds 'illusion' and 'glamour' to what it touches and in my view this is a t-square which suggests an eroticising of the feminine, possibly due to a relationship with the mother, but to a point that is unattainable for real every day ACTUAL women. This is a placement which I feel may well 'air brush' an ideal of what women should be, but of course real women seldom can be expected to live up to these illusary ideals. The lack of air in the chart might similarly indicate a lack of perspective here.
I think looking at things like that would be more useful than examining sign placements which are, after all, true for 1/12th of the population.

(not meaning to be harsh here, just throwing it out there as my personal opinion)
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Myro



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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jennvt,

There seems to be a dual, contradictory pull in this gentleman’s nature between the strongly mental-intellectual on the one hand and the emotional on the other. With Virgo upon the Ascendant and Uranus therein with a sextile aspect to the Lord of the Ascendant, there is little doubt that he is endowed with a sharp, swift, unconventional and powerfully inventive intellect. And I think it will be quite impossible for him to let any impulse escape without its being subjected to a critical, objective, intellectual scrutiny. I believe it is this combination of Mercury, Uranus and Neptune (Trine with Mercury) which will inform most experiences of his life, even those that are supposed to touch the emotions. I therefore think that his views and expectations so far as love is concerned are likely to be rather odd, and I think most women will find it quite taxing to spend a simple, romantic, relaxing evening with him because they will be expected to constantly live up to certain lofty, perhaps unrealistic ideals which this gentleman has of “the woman whom he’d be in love with or who’d be in love with him”. I also feel that with Mars in the II House in square with Mercury, this gentleman can often be quite scathing in the way he uses language and, whether intentionally or unknowingly, is bound to hurt others through his words.

With the Lord of the Ascendant retrograde and peregrine in Cancer, as also the Sun in Cancer, this gentleman possesses a phenomenal memory. But as I have often experienced, an exceptional memory in itself can be a curse, for it shows an inability to let go of the past, an impossibility of forgetting anything. And this gives rise to an often futile and unprofitable comparison and assessment of the present with the past – whether real or imaginary – leading to eventual disappointment in or disparaging of the value or worth of the present, of that which one has, which one possesses.

I somehow feel that the curiously constructed nature of this gentleman is made more for friendship than for love. And I also feel that somewhere at the deepest core of his being there is something still unresolved, unconfronted, unarticulated about his experience and expression of sexuality and it affects the way in which he conducts his relationships with women and the expectations he brings to them.

Among other things, it is worth noticing:

The Lord of the Ascendant and the Lord of the VII are both in the XI House.
The Lord of the VII is also Lord of the IV.
Jupiter, Mercury and the Sun as rulers of the Parents possibly speak of a rather distinguished pedigree. And I think his memory and ideals of his parents from his childhood days have an important bearing upon his relationships as an adult.
As general significators in matters of love, the Moon cadent, Venus cadent.
The Moon in an Airy sign, Venus in a Fiery sign.
Three planets in Watery signs, three in Fiery signs.
The Moon in the House of Saturn; Saturn in his Fall in the VIII.
Mutable signs on Angles.

Best wishes.
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, you've given some good advice.

My personal rule for reading on-line astrology forum horoscopes is that: (1) for someone who is not a public figure, either the data have to be anonymous, or s/he has to give permission. (2) If someone expressly does not want his/her chart read, I won't do it. (3) I won't participate on a thread where the OP says, "Show me exactly why this miserable excuse for a human being is so wretched," unless it is to call the poster to task. (4) Public figures/celebrities are fair game. (5) I try not to forget the privilege of looking at someone's chart. In a way, I think it does show what a soul is on earth to accomplish, with both its tool-kit and barriers.

I think signs are overdone and over-simplified in many modern astrology cookbooks; perhaps because planets in signs are relatively easy to locate. To me a sign says "how" or "in what manner" a planet operates; kind of like an adverb or adjective in a sentence. So it acts as a qualifier, not as a static set of character traits. I don't find Pisces on the 7th house cusp as interesting as determining what is happening with Neptune as the modern accidental house cusp ruler.

Are you familiar with Jodie Forrest's book, The Ascendant? It is the best (modern) book I've found on this topic, because it incorporates the AC/DC axis in a very wise and funny way. It really gets away from matching the rising sign with outward physicial characteristics--the kind of popular book that ignores genetics.

If we start with the AC part of that axis, we might say that Virgo rising does have meaning for the individual's embodiment and outward personality. The AC is a major "me" part of the horoscope: what the native identifies with. Leaving any 7th house planets out of it for the moment, the DC becomes the "other"--the "not me" or a "less me" point.

If we think of Virgo's quest for perfection and being helpful to people, then the opposite sign represents something "not that". This doesn't mean that Virgo rising will seek out partners with the sun in Pisces or anything so transparent; merely that it tends to see the partner as exemplifying Piscean traits. These might be very positive if the DC, any 7th house planets, or Neptune are well-aspected; but negative if they are not.

Consequently relationships often get screwed up because people with a given rising sign tend to look to the partner/spouse to complete themselves by exemplifying the positive "not me" traits, which is a huge burden to put on another person. Virgo gets a bit more shrill, and Pisces retreats, refusing to play her game of meeting her perfectionist expectations.

I think the sun in the 7th can be a difficult placement, because a permanent relationship is so important, whether the person has one or not. With women, you often see them giving their personal power away to the man (or hoped-for man) in their lives, whether or not this is any good for them. With the "lonely guy" on this thread, I think that Chiron squaring his sun from the 7th creates a lot of pain around relationships; at least until he can get some chironic "wisdom" regarding his situation.

Me? Virgo rising here. My husband is a sensitive guy who thankfully seems to be recovered from alcohol problems.
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GR



Joined: 14 May 2005
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:

Not sure if you're "allowed" use modern techniques on this forum, I know some people are skeptical of them, others outright critical of them.


Hi Paul,

AFAIK this particular forum on Skyscript allows all techniques, it is the Traditional forum that focuses on non-modern work. While there are posters, like myself, who are skeptical & critical of modern astrology, as long as people are civil there shouldn't be any problem. And our moderators do a good job of stepping in if some sort of problem comes up.
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Paul
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waybread

I haven't read that book but I totally agree with a lot of what you're saying here. My personal approach is to see the ascendant as that part of us that we recognise in ourselves and is our particular subjective filter through which we see the world and the world sees us. The descendant on the other hand is the less 'conscious' part of us that we tend to project onto others as well as that side of ourselves that we expect from other people.
I totally agree with the 'adjective' idea that you used for signs. I see it this way, signs are merely the 'style' or 'expression' of the planets. The more interesting thing for me is the aspects. For example Moon square Saturn is, for me, more relevant than, say, Moon in aquarius, that's not to say moon in aquarius isn't relevant of course. One thing I have noticed though is that those with 7th house planets may well project them onto their partners. So there is the stereotypical cases of people with Mars in the 7th who protest that they are not angry/competitive/selfish, but by god their partner is, or, more generally, 'other' people are. In other words they do not recognise their own mars qualities in themselves and so tend to 'give them away' to other people which they then invariably meet from others.
Of course that's not relevant to this chart but I thought I'd just mention it cos of the discussion on the descendant.


GR

Thanks! Wasn't sure and I didn't want to antagonise anyone!
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Kim Farnell



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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To confirm - you're allowed any astrological technique you like on this forum.

The bias tends to be traditional as most posters on Skyscript are traditional astrologers. If you're not, you're not. So long as the "be respectful to other astrologers" rule is adhered to, there will be no problems.
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jennvt



Joined: 21 Sep 2010
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies for not answering so many replies in a timely fashion, there was some unexpected seriousness that needed attending to.

So to begin: As I stated, I was given birth time etc with the intention of interpreting the chart but then found myself desiring feedback since it is a big issue for the subject. I don't have access to many personal astrologers, so I posited some questions on the forum and was asked to post the full chart for better analysis. I believe it is most anonymous as this person was born in a major metropolis.

So some key (non astrological) points that I too saw in the chart:

Yes, the subject is prone to both heavy naivete and unrealistic views of women and of life in general. I would venture to say he tends to like "pining" more than the real deal. He has an unusual lack of insight regarding many aspects of interpersonal connection both with women and with friendship. There is some problem with substances, but really more that his attitude towards such things are age inappropriate with regard to the priority or focus of them in life - most outgrow by 40's, at least the "impressed" part of it.

He is not a player, nor would I characterize him as a person who is very sexualized. He is the quintessential nice guy with damsel in distress women friends who date other guys. His longest relationship has lasted 6 months and he goes through years without. He cites having marriage and children as one (if not the one) biggest life desires.

Family (what little I know) his Mother was the bedrock of family, loyal, kind, but not particularly fond of demonstrative behaviour or affection. Lots of admiration of her sacrificial (IMO a bit martyr) nature. Father was affectionate but irresponsible. Both parents are physically attractive- as is he. Substance abuse issues abound in siblings and with father.

Interesting observations (to me) was about long memory and resentment (yes, he is oddly resentful for such a passive person) Anger in general is a bit of an issue, or better said, the lack of...

Sabotage Note: A major behavioural flaw is with the phone: getting back to family/friends/girlfriends in a timely manner and he is duly, chronically late. He is not good with money nor is he particularly successful, though well educated. This lack of cash is often cited as one of the only acknowledged flaws restraining his capacity for relationship. He can be fixed and unreachable regarding the inconsiderate phone behavior/lateness.

I've been reading the responses and thinking about my own gut response about not responding to this chart for a variety of reasons, one being I don't find the subject particularly open to feedback. I am, however, really interested in reading your responses. Originally it was stagnant, but then it just took off and *I'm* learning a great deal :)
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Paul
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jennvt,

I skimmed through the posts and wasn't sure so thought I'd ask.

My thoughts are that the Moon, Netpune, Venus t-square are the 'crux' of this issue (in my view). The Moon and Venus are loosely in opposition but suggest that there is a internal dynamic of competing influences of women being EITHER erotic OR caregivers. THe problem here might well be that the erotic aspect quickly becomes an "I need a surrogate mammy" tendancy and so there may well be a neediness and projection of the 'glamour' of the magical mother onto all potential relationships which of course is not real and has been heavily 'airbrusehd' in his own head so that his views of his own mother may well be over exaggerated or lit with soft lighting in his memory. There is likely to be a 'not a bad word said' kind of quality to him with his mother and he will be setting that unrealistic bar for other women to achieve. Of course, nobody can, in fact nobody is meant to because if they do then maybe magic mammy isn't that special after all. This is likely to not be terribly conscious, Venus is, after all, in the 12th. Interestingly the 6th 12th axis is picked up here and there may be some psychosomatic 'problems' or illnesses that may result from this, perhaps with the heart or blood, perhaps blood sugar with venus involved. I'm not a doctor so won't speculate too much more than that.
Neptune adds this layer of illusion around it and here it touches the two primary planets which deal with motherhood and in psychological terms I wonder about some sort of vague oedipus-like complex. There may also be a need to be the daddy that his mother never had but in this manner he may well behave just like his own father who by his own account was not responisible. In other words he looks for a strong super woman to take care of him because he's looking for that unattainable childlike quality of 'perfection' that small kids bestow upon their mothers, but which, hopefully, adults grow out of.
I don't mean this to sound pathological or anything, I'm sure it's all very subtle and not *that* big a deal, I'm over emphasising it to make sense of it.
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jennvt



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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul,

That T-square jumped off the chart at me as well.

I don't think you are using too broad a brush, actually, you brought a dynamic to mind: The eldest sibling - a seriously Alpha female.

The women he gets involved with are all Alpha and the usual complaint is they are too like this eldest sister, whom, he both admires and criticises, as irrational and angry. He fears this sister's wrath more than his father, who is perceived as ineffectual. This sister's took over what (traditionally) should have been his role (he is eldest male in large family) as the big (oedipal) challenger of father, to defend the mother and take the father's irresponsibility to task.

This is interesting to me regarding that Neptune in the 3rd as the apex of this T-Square.

Also: Mars 2nd / Saturn 8th opposition possibly speaks to ineffectual masculinity *symbolic castration?* what is also interesting is the use of fire in the chart with the Saturn in Aries/Venus in Leo both being symbolically submerged (hidden) houses.
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aglaya



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Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, everyone, haven't been around much lately so, before i start, I just want to say that I hope you've been fine and that I've missed you! Wink

I was going through the threads that have been opened over the past couple of months and this chart attracted my attention; Virgo rising, Aquarius Moon, Cancerian Sun and Jupiter in Leo....it sounds like me! Very Happy I can really relate to this chart! I believe that the exact age of the person has not been mentioned but, with his Saturn in Aries, this "middle aged" man is obviously much older than me! Also, he is a male which significantly changes the symbolical value of the Moon. But regardless of all that, i think that i can actually recognise a part of the problem based on my own experiences.
Personally, i don't think that the general promise is that dark but, to me, it is very obvious that one huge part of the problem is rooted in his own temperament and behaviour. Which should be good- those would be the walls that he can actually break down with a little effort should someone simply give him a good input.
The "moistness" that PFN has rightly pointed out is, indeed, very important in this case, imho. It presents him as a "soft" soul and a person constantly in search for love and warmth- a chase or even an urge that often turns periods of solitude and disappointments into even greater horrors than they often really are. It usually becomes more of a dramatic "why always me?" than a constructive "why didn't it work?" question (bad luck! part) and, besides dark clouds, it also often brings about longer periods or episodes of a complete non-constructiveness. And self-pity is a common attitude among cancerian people. Smile In his case, even the ruler of the Ascendant is placed inside Cancer which only makes him a more "always looking for the right one" type of person. he wants warmth!
Now, since it is obvious that a woman will not fall into his lap very easily Smile, it is important to make him understand that some things he can and has got to "change" (improve, work on...) in order to improve his communicational skills with women in particular. Besides aversions and T-squares other members have already mentioned (and those obviously decrease the potential for good communication in long lasting relationships), we also have a retrograde Mercury (inability to express himself in the right way) and, with that planet being his ascendant ruler placed in a moist sign, he may be indecisive and often trapped in past failures for just a bit too long. Retrograde Mercury in a mute sign is obviously a very paradoxical situation- despite his apparent Virgo nature, he can actually find himself lost in communication and unable to express himself properly.
Mercury squaring Mars (Mercury= natural ruler of communications; Mars= ruler of the 3rd), is yet another testimony of what has already been mentioned. He might need to work on his flexibility: whilst some people intentionally or not, sometimes hurt us with their words (and he obviously is prone to such situations), we do need to know the measure when it comes to being insulted. Sometimes it sounds worse than it is. Sometimes, on the other hand, we an sound harsh without knowing it. Quarrels and fights that eventually "gain" more weight than they should, could be a problem here.

Another very important thing here is the distribution of male and female planets in signs: his Sun is in a very feminine, emotional sign, in aversion to his own rulership whilst his Mars is in his detriment and ruled by Venus. His two masculine planets are ruled by feminine ones. on the other side, we have the Moon in Aquarius and Venus inside Leo- very masculine if you ask me! Smile Now, whilst this disposition of the Sun over Venus might actually be good for him (although Venus is ill placed inside the 12th), it seems to me that he might be lacking a bit of a real masculine energy. Or, on the other hand, he might need to come to terms with this "upside down" system and accept it the way it is. because, generally, speaking, the aspects between the male and female planets in this chart are quite good!
The Moon is a freelancer (aquarius) and on a critical degree strongly indicating instability and movement which might mean that some of his women have literally drifted away after a while. The application of the Moon to the Sun across the sign boundary may also be saying that there often is a an obstacle that prevents the "growth" of his relationships (also, i prefer this Moon inside Aquarius as, only one degree later, it would actually be in the detriment of his ascendant ruler). But, the good news is- the planets are actually applying into a trine. Secondly, we have a sextile between Mars and Venus (I don't have the exact time and so I can't really tell if the planets are applying or separating but, whichever of the two, the orb is still very tight and the planets can communicate).
Fixed ruler of the 7th also supports the possibility of a long lasting relationship eventually. With its placement in the Eastern quarter of Heaven and a trine to Saturn, we might have an indication of a significant age difference.
What adds much weight to this chart is the influence of the cadent and dark houses: not only are both feminine planets invisible from the ascendant but they're both actually cadent. I'm aware of the kind of problems this could lead to since I myslf have the Lord of the 1st and the Lord of 7th inside the 12th only, in my case, the two rulers are partile conjunct.
Besides cadency, the influence of the 6th and 12th must be making things difficult. The contact of the Lord of the 7th with Saturn, the ruler of the 5th, inside the 8th house is certainly of no help here. But, fortunately, even this aspect is of a benevolent nature.
I would suggest the person to make a thorough analysis of the roles in his relationships, of his own masculinity and approach to women and of his genuine wishes. The 6th and 12th might actually be saying that it is the trouble or a troubled place that hides the woman he might want to stay with for a long time. Jupiter suggests friends and help from friends.

The two heavy outer planets near his ascendant would probably inspire modern astrologers to give him suggestions on how to adjust his attitude towards other people (women included). Wink

Cheers!
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RedGarnet



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Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't read every one's post so I apologize if I repeat here. My first question is this an accurate time of birth? Just a slight difference in time could move his Uranus(Pluto too of course) back to conjuncting his ASC, which in turn would oppose his DEC making long-term relationships rather difficult. Regardless, Uranus in the 1st indicates someone who likes their freedom. What's more, he has Moon in Aquarius another freedom loving sign and Mars in Libra a very analytical sign. Pluto in the 1st can make one intense, so maybe the combination of deep down wanting his freedom and be Rather an intense makes for short relationships. BTW, I understand if he is saying he wants to be married, etc, but to me this chart is saying that traditional is not really what he wants deep down inside. I say he should come to terms with his own need for freedom and stop looking for traditional and maybe things will workout longer term for him.
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R.A.



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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,
From what I see, the seventh lord in the twelfth "evil spirit" is a very simple indication of struggles in relationships. Perhaps this would be alleviated if Jupiter could aspect the Sun since there would be reception by exaltation, but the planets cannot see eachother traditionally, modernly there is an applying semisextile. And then we also have Venus in the twelfth, the exalted lord of the Piscean seventh--so two basic signatures of chronic unhappiness in love through life. Add to that we have Moon in a separating opposition (barely still in aspect) to Venus which would augment the negative placement.

Just my brief thoughts.
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Julie K



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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:20 am    Post subject: Single man Reply with quote

I can understand why this man cannot 'bond' and maintain a long term r/ship Saturn in 8th - he is terrified of an intimate r/ship.Maybe to the point of self sabotage?

Hs 12th house Venus carries a 'cloistered' energy - he can't come out to play. Venus opposing Aquarian Moon 6th House - it began with Mother? He feels he is not 'good enough' or is undeserving?

The personal planets are all on the Western side of the chart - he can't consider anyone else - very caught up with himself - it's all about him!

Julie K
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