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Love/relationship identifiers
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Maxz



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 79

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:40 am    Post subject: Love/relationship identifiers Reply with quote

I am reading different methods of finding love relationships and/or marriage in a natal chart. I can't seem to find a very reliable method that works for me. I can see job and work-related indicators, but not love.

I would appreciate guidance pointing me in the right direction about finding a good reliable method to look for mutual love relationships in my chart. Thank you.


Last edited by Maxz on Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ellen



Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 26
Location: Tucson, Arizona USA

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please respect the ban on personal charts at this site.
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Maxz



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 79

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't see this ban from 6 months ago.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But did the ban include the abstract discussion of the method at all? In my understanding it did not . . . and there are no data given as yet.
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can't have done. If it did, we wouldn't have a natal astrology section anymore.
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1393

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I didnīt see the original post, so I can only comment in what is right now.

It is ok to discuss abstract concepts of natal astrology: after all is that what the forum is here for!

It may be ok to use your own chart for example, but in a moderate way. The concept should be first.

Members who are trying to get a free online consultation may have their posts erased or receive a warning to stop doing so.

About the question: Maxz, I feel your question is too vague for me to offer any support. I donīt if you know astrology at all, if you do, what kind, what techniques are you using and what exactly you are looking for. Without this, I canīt know what will "work for you" as you put it. I, for instance, use traditional astrology. If you use quiron and pluto for love, there is really nothing I can do to help you.

But in the other hand, if you tell us that you use an specific method, letīs say solar arc method, maybe somebody can provide with more specific advice.

Best regards
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Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com
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Maxz



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 79

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuzuru wrote:
Hi
I didnīt see the original post, so I can only comment in what is right now.

It is ok to discuss abstract concepts of natal astrology: after all is that what the forum is here for!

It may be ok to use your own chart for example, but in a moderate way. The concept should be first.

Members who are trying to get a free online consultation may have their posts erased or receive a warning to stop doing so.

About the question: Maxz, I feel your question is too vague for me to offer any support. I donīt if you know astrology at all, if you do, what kind, what techniques are you using and what exactly you are looking for. Without this, I canīt know what will "work for you" as you put it. I, for instance, use traditional astrology. If you use quiron and pluto for love, there is really nothing I can do to help you.

But in the other hand, if you tell us that you use an specific method, letīs say solar arc method, maybe somebody can provide with more specific advice.

Best regards


Thank you, yozuro. I will add detail.

I haven't looked too much at Pluto, but have been looking at my basic transits, seeing love (Venus) and the planet of instinctive drives and desires (Mars) transit my Sun sign. Perhaps this is when attraction rules and when there is an increase in the odds of finding love. Also, when both transiting planets are in a sign that trines my Sun sign in Sag (i.e transiting Venus and Mars are in a sign of the same element as my Sun sign) fire, it's maybe a good time that love will appear. I'm looking more for trines/or a "no friction" aspect for love entering my life unexpectedly in this case.

Then, another method I read was to look for transiting Jupiter and Saturn both making major harmonious aspects to my ruler or co-ruler of my 5th house of love. This could be important change I think. With an orb of 3° and list the periods when both planets build such a soft aspect. And maybe the outer planets, Pluto (as you mentioned,) Neptune and even Uranus conjunct, sextile or trine the ruler of my 5th house can perhaps bring a profound change too? Uranus maybe is often more short-lived though. So I may count that one out.

If it's permissible I'll post a chart. Let me know.

I'm mostly looking for more reliable methods that have (in hindsight) worked for others. Examples would be great.
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1393

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally use primary and secondary progressions (besides firdaria, profection and SR) and a traditional interpretation.

I read about transits of Jupiter but never found anything of importance.

Even secondary progressions of venus can show things, have you tried it?
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Maxz

Maxz wrote:

I haven't looked too much at Pluto, but have been looking at my basic transits, seeing love (Venus) and the planet of instinctive drives and desires (Mars) transit my Sun sign.


I'm really not keen on using just transits for such things- if we are talking about a new relationship or about the very first meeting with the person whom the Nativity will eventually fall in love and start a relationship with, then we are talking about some major events and I'm very very reluctant in giving transiting placements of the planets the "power" to announce them , at least not on their own. Which predictive methods the astrologer will use is up to him or her, of course, so it is a question of choice but I don't think many would agree that the transits alone are sufficient.
Instead, I'd expect the Solar return and Proffectional charts to give some kind of announcement or promise and would then try to determine the more or less precise date. I use Lilly's system of calculating the time when the planets that form an aspect in Proffections or SR will make a bodily contact and so far, I have found it to work just fine for me.


As for the "Venus=love and Mars=desire" part I might suggest you to be cautious there; we can't expect the aspects to always trigger the activities or the potential for activities in accordance with the nature of the planets that form them as sometimes they will announce an event or an activity described by the houses which those planets rule. Even Lilly mentions this somewhere in CA III (when talking about Directions, I think), and says that it is worth keeping the second option in mind. Secondly, we usually have multiple or at least double rulerships of some planets which involves more than one potential symbolics. I am not saying that Venus does not "operate" as a planet of love and that does not have its fingers in such questions- but I am saying that she is sometimes simply the ruler of a certain house. I will give you an example- 2 years ago my directional Moon was trining my Natal Venus (Moon directed to Venus by trine) and the Moon was actually inside the 7th. That looks like a very romantic direction at first glance. And it wasn't annulled by other influences either. But Venus rules my 10th and my 2nd- around that time, a family friend (a woman, besides my Natal Venus is placed inside the 11th) helped me to find a very handsomely paid job.

That said- my 7th and thus, the Moon inside it as well, are in a mutable sign which dictated the length of my "career" - that you should take into consideration as well- cardinal signs often suggest relationships of short breath or flings. Take everything into consideration, of course, but do consider the nature of the signs from wich the planets apply to each other. In all of the charts.


Quote:
Also, when both transiting planets are in a sign that trines my Sun sign in Sag (i.e transiting Venus and Mars are in a sign of the same element as my Sun sign) fire, it's maybe a good time that love will appear.


It's sounds too simple to be true, doesn't it!? Laughing

I don't think much can happen if there is no promise for a major event in the rest of the (more important) charts. Besides, you have to see what other aspects these planets are forming from that position and how they feel in that sign.
In my Natal chart, the planets are 180° (beneficial trine) distant from my Natal Sun and Venus near the cusp of the 5th- but, no, the time of the major love events in my case almost never coincided with the relevant planets entering the 5th.

Like yuzuru, i use SR and proffectional charts as well as progressions, both primary and secondary ones, though not many astrologers do, but I have found secondaries to be very useful and helpful. I haven't had much experience with charts of male nativities but, when it comes to women, the Moon/Venus aspects in secondary progressed charts have been of quite some help so far. If there is no apparent obstacle in either that same or some of the additional charts, Moon trine Venus has really worked each time I spotted it (I even have a few examples of young women losing virginity during that period or starting their first steady relationship the very day when their Moon was progreesed to their atal Venus), but I'd always look into more than one chart and make sure I have a confirmation or, if nothing else, that I see no obstacle anything that might annul that promise.

And another thing about transits- you will often come across charts with very bad placements cast for the moment when people enter a relationship. I can't say that they are of no relevance but, again, the Natal promise comes first and, if other predictive methods do show strong signs of potential for a new love event, then it will happen if the person is willing to use the potential. Elections would be of great help but not everyone is familiar with them. Just recently I was talking to a woman (recently divorced) about her Natal chart when she told me that she knew the time and date of her first kiss with her now ex husband, her friend wrote it down on an old calendar for fun and she still has it- that kiss was also the "formal" beginning of their relationship. It had Moon conjunct Saturn, both transiting and her natal Saturn as it happened during her first Saturn return. Yet, they started a relationship that would last for the next 20 years. That placement certainly was descriptive of some phases and segments of their life together throughout all these years but it did survive. As for the divorce- she had a strong promise of separation in her Natal chart.


Last edited by aglaya on Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:39 pm; edited 7 times in total
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You also want to look at the natal chart carefully. Is the 5 ruler or 7 ruler combust, retrograde, or otherwise afflicted? In my experience, combustion can do some nasty things to a ruler. As well as looking at any planets in those houses (anything conjunct the cusp is especially significant).

Transits are tricky - if there isn't some major natal contact between the planets, they don't seem to do much of anything and even a Venus transit setting off a natal Moon-Venus sextile (I mention this as I have Venus unafflicted in Pisces and Moon in Taurus sextile - both planets are exalted, in other words and Venus is in as good a shape as it gets) usually just means a pleasant mood, or maybe a small gift in the post or a card from someone), and like everyone else, I prefer to look at SRs, profections, and even lunar returns in conjunction with SRs.
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 922
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Maxz,

Although transits have been the technique that convinced me most clearly of the effectiveness of astrology, there is a risk of using them in the expectancy of hope for change, whether it be in love life, job life or living situations etc. This is not a condemnation from my side but rather my personal experience. In several periods I've been looking for years (in vain) at my transits for changes to come, combined with the use of hindsight interpretation to find some meaning of transits.

In your yesterday's post I recognize the way I've been looking at transits. I experienced that they do work indeed in the sense that with Venus or Jupiter transiting the Ascendant or Venus I got more female attention. However I'd be careful in putting too much hope in them because there could be the tendency of becoming passive. In the period that Jupiter transits trine natal Venus, nobody's going to ring at the doorbell, saying: "Hi, I'm the love of your life,". Of course you'll be aware of this but just looking at transits could have such an effect in a more subtle way in ones attitude. Although others would focus on other prediction techniques, I'd say that the same would count for these. Laying too much hope in any prediction technique is always hazardous I'm afraid. Perhaps I sound terribly modernist here but this is how I experienced it. Progressing Venus never did much in my life, nor did my directions as far I can see until now.

Instead of looking at the future positions, I would focus on the natal chart for indicators or blockades of love life. Transits (and directions etc.) come and go and we just undergo them for a while, enjoying their joys or their sorrows. However when they are over, the normal situation will return like a stressball after being squeezed, no matter which shape it has, will take its original shape again when let loose. If you find problematic things that always seem to return during the years, like let's use an example of attracting persons who are in it only for your money and you have a problematic Jupiter-Venus aspect whether or not combined with something in the second house, then this natal issue is the thing to get aware of and trying to cope with. Same is with synastry. One could find someone whose Venus is trine to natal Moon or Venus but if the natal positions indicate some difficulties in the natal regardless whose chart, and these difficulties aren't dealt with, then these difficulties can overshadow the good synastry.

My approach may seem like modern astrology. This is only partly correct. Although I think I would not be able to predict concrete events in a 'judicial' astrology way, on the other side I absolutely feel no affinity with the astrologers of the last decennia whose psychological approach seems merely aimed at blaming ones mother for everything that goes wrong in life and let Chiron heal all wounds of a dreadfull childhood. Okay, I'm being a bit blunt here but I strongly dislike this type of astrology, and very few issues in the natal chart really go that 'deep-psychological' deep as these approaches try to do make us believe. Soberly looking at some problematic natal chart positions and looking for a practical solution would suffice I believe.

A 'natural' astrology approach therefore would be of my preference. If a person would have too much 'Saturn' in him/herself then this could cause some stiffness in character and unapproachability, hindering contact with others and being too much of a thinking person. In such a case the person could try to think less and be more relaxed, avoiding heavy 'Weltschmerz-like' thougts. A bad tempered Mars could be sublimated by physical exercise. Being too easily distracted with some Mercury position, countered with being more in solitude etc.

In earlier days other countering methods would be doing rituals or wearing talismans or more physically approached, drinking herbal teas to bring balance back in the body which will also have its effect in the mental constitution and consequently in the relation with others.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your are right, Eddy: You can't win the lottery if you don't attend it first of all!
And as simple as it is, we forget this truth too often.
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or possibly SRs, whatever other predictive techniques for the natal chart and horary?

Eddy, let's hope I get well enough to get out and about soon cos Jupiter and Venus are in about 15 kinds of generosity in my natal including each other's rulerships and Venus is exalted, and T-Jupiter is going to conjunct natal Venus in mid-March. Course my SR Saturn is sitting in 7, and it all profects to the 12th, but....

I'll keep you posted. Hopefully I'll be able to scrape together money for a lottery ticket, too Smile

I seriously doubt anything good will come of it, though.
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olivia wrote:
I seriously doubt anything good will come of it, though.


You should see my next year Sr + Proffections + Progressions + Directions situation! Laughing I think I just might start "complaining" in that topic that you opened some time ago.

But first, I have to welcome Jupiter in my 7th and in its domicile, transitional jupiter though! Smile
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and BTW, Maxz, keep your eyes open for beneficial aspects of your Ascendant to Venus and Sun (well, don't forget the Moon either), both in progressions and directions or whichever you use. Well, keep your eyes open even for stressful aspects. Wink
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