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Birthday trips - from the outrageous to the irresponsible
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Do you support the logic of birthday trips for solar returns?
No way!
78%
 78% 
Yes I do!
18%
 18% 
Not sure
3%
 3% 

Author Message
Mansoor



Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Posts: 56

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kirk, Olivia,

Equally compelling arguments.

Regarding the relationship between the heavens, the earth and man in-between, I have often thought of how so many people travel to a certain spot simply drawn by death.

The parents of a colleague of mine decided to relocate with him when he took up a job in a different town. The father fell in love with the place within days of their arrival and said he wanted to settle down there for the rest of his life. They are of the Shiite faith and he made enquiries regarding Shiite burial grounds in the town. The following week while walking leisurely back home from the market with a small bag of fruits and vegetables, he dropped on the wayside, was discovered by certain kind strangers who redialed the last number on his mobile and finally brought him home dead. I was struck by the whole thing. The man did make a conscious and considered decision to relocate. Or did he?

Mansoor
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 965
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tracked my own solar returns for a few years, then gave it up as a waste of time. Maybe I didn't do a good job of reading these charts, though. Confused

To me, the solar return is a kind of transit. Mighen't we also travel on our Venus return, lunar return, Mercury return, &c. to get more benefits out of our lives? There's a slippery slope argument here, somewhere.

Also, wherein is it written that people should have only "vanilla" lives? We are born with charts that are mixed bags of easy and difficult aspects. Rather than indulging in "astrology tourism" to escape life's challenges, I think it is far more intelligent for people to prepare themselves to face life's difficulties. They should get a little more back-bone, I say. Congenital illnesses, poverty, and family feuds aren't going to perk right up just because the native takes a holiday.

Moreover, especially for modern astrologers who work with Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, these planets can hang out in-aspect and in-orb for a very long time. If I spend a few thousand dollars to fly to the Falkland Islands to get a nicer chart on my birthday and I've got transiting Pluto square sun and Mars for the next two and a half years, he is going to be waiting for me when I get back home again. For a long time.

Having said that, I support a choice-centered astrology in which people can take deliberate, positive steps to enhance their lives. I also used astrological maps of planetary lines (available in the special charts section of the free charts pages at www.astro.com ) as one piece of information to choose the location for my current home, and it has worked out really well.

And, well, if people have sufficient leisure time and income to indulge in astrology tourism, well that's their decision to make.
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JulieYvonne



Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 42

Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Relocating for your birthday to change your life experiences is crazy!

God forbid astrologers sound whackadoo--we might lose our credibility and forfeit the Nobel Physics Prize.

Relocated or Aimed Solar Returns is one of the most fascinating predictive directions astrology can make at this point in time. I have been studying it for years with friends and celebrity charts. My personal experience with relocating has been intriguing and fruitful.

Don't mock and dismiss what you don't understand. Astrologers should know better.
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Tanit
Moderator


Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1115
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps there should be a distinction made between relocation astrology and SR vacations (for a day or two)?

This probably works for some people, but I think it especially depends on the individual's natal and situation(s) in the SR you're trying to address. If someone has a lot of bad luck, they probably won't even make it to the plane ride for their SR vacation to better their situation. I have natal ASC ruler Moon in the 6th square Saturn (who is stationary, peregrine and conjunct the NN) - someone could offer me a free ticket, and I'd bet you I'd miss the ride because of some unforseen catastrophe, either via a family death, car accident, malfunction for the plane, etc. A tree would fall on me if I got through all of that nonsense. Laughing

Another thing is that this would be a perk for the richer clients because how many people can go across the world on their birthday? The fact is if you can afford to cart yourself off far enough (and the family will want to come along, etc.) to move planets around, you are already ahead of the game in certain areas because you probably have things like a good job, health insurance, a nice place to live, and just your basic needs covered - you have a lot of extra spending money, so how bad can your life be, I say? You get to travel to another country, so your year is definitely better than a lot of people I know!

Your location will also just say a lot about the area in question that looks problematic. Not finding love? Maybe there aren't enough singles in your city. Can't find work in your field? There's probably another city that is faring better. As someone who struggled (we're talking quite literally in the thousands for job apps) to find work throughout my 2010 SR (with Saturn in Virgo retro, opposite SR ASC ruler Jupiter, Saturn smack on the MC), I can tell you that my SR location, which is close to my natal, is not ideal for finding work (it has a poor economy, is isolated in the country, etc.), especially in my field (the sciences). That is just common sense and no astrology is even necessary for me to see that the location is "bad" for 10th house matters. Anyone who lives in my area has to commute quite far (which is what I am now doing - 30 hrs per week). I had many close calls for out of state/city jobs that all fell through, so even "luck" didn't want that to happen, as "luck" often has her say for anyone, whether they want to go on vacation or not. Had I been able to move without a job offer, which might have put Saturn somewhere less challenging, I probably would have found work much easier. Then again, if I had money to burn I wouldn't really have a problem in the first place, and therefore would not be a person with such a difficult influence. If I were able to take a SR vacation, and I assure you Saturn has afforded no fun for me this year, not looking to root myself somewhere, I seriously think I would have just been more broke! Confused
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3506
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I tracked my own solar returns for a few years, then gave it up as a waste of time. Maybe I didn't do a good job of reading these charts, though


I used to think that way until I read Morin's Book 23 of Astrologia Gallica. I have said before and I will state again that this might be the most instructive astrology text I've ever read. That being stated, it is also true that one needs, at least, a basic understanding of Morin's astrology and at the very least that requires understanding Book 21 before tackling Book 23. Solar returns are far more than transits, according to Morin. They are a reinforcing of the Sun's power over the individual and by so doing they reinvigorate the natal chart and what it "promises" or more correctly it releases or obstructs the potential within the natal chart. When we view it that way the SR becomes far more understandable and useful.
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 1001
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is interesting about the method of solar returns from the Hellenistic period is that the Moon "selects" the rising sign of the return, not your location, so effectively it does not matter where you are.

However, I once was in Denver on my 21st birthday almost 2000 miles away from home (it was not planned to adjust energies) and my natal angles returned to the degree (which normally only happens every 33 years). I took it to mean that fate was more determinate for me at the time.
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elumen



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 264
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also follow the Morin's method, and I found SR to be one of the most accurate predictive techniques-- it is stunningly accurate in fact, I have not used primary directions much, but SR work without exceptions. they work for the location where I'm at during the SR, according to my 14 years experience of tracking them.
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unique_astrology



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 177

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest the study of John F. Kennedy's 1963 solar returns for Brookline, MA, Washington, D.C., and Dallas, TX, and the transits to them and also to their progressions on November 22, 1963.
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3506
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I suggest the study of John F. Kennedy's 1963 solar returns for Brookline, MA, Washington, D.C., and Dallas, TX,



Why Dallas? It might be interesting as far as hindsight astrology goes, but unless you know he's going there before hand, we wouldn't think to use it as a predictive tool. Washington DC (assuming he was there on his birthday, and I think he was. I did this once before, but I might have guessed. He went to Hyannis Port a lot) is 438 miles from Brookline by car and less as the crow flies. The difference on the ASC is about 3 degrees (5+ on the MC), but the Brookline SR chart puts Pluto and the Moon near the MC while the DC SR chart puts Mars close to the MC, albeit in a different sign. Brookline puts Algol closer to the DSC.

Kennedy's birth time is generally accepted as 3:00 pm. Although I'm sure some people are born on the hour, I am always suspicious.

The Kennedy assassination is an interesting astrological case study because so many unrelated things had to come together on Nov 22 '63 for events to transpire as they did.
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unique_astrology



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 177

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I don't know. I thought such a study of a known event, comparing birth place against event localities, precessed against non-precessed, and any other comparisons one might make depending on their preferred technique, might be a help as a learning experience. Perhaps not for you or other members here.

Of course, the chart of any personality with a recorded birth time could be used instead of Kennedy's ...perhaps President Obama for the year he was elected, Neil Armstrong for the year of the Moon landing, Susan Boyle for the year she rose from obscurity to worldwide fame, or any number of personalities whose data may be found on the Astrodienst site.

And a happy holiday season to you too.

Years ago I rectified Kennedy's birth time.

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junibus



Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Posts: 20
Location: Georgia

Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello all

I argue for taking the birth place of the querent is preferrable over
the relocated place. I have moved to many different countries
and when I use my birth place for revolution chart, it seems to fit me
more than using the relocated place but surely it is only my opinion
that cannot be generalized.

the problem is if we allow using the relocated places, shouldnt we
use also use this logic in other methods?
for example, I was born in germany but moved to korea when I was
6. So when I calculate a progressed chart for my 7th birthday, by secondary progression shouldnt I prograss my natal chart 7 days after my birth date but change the location from Germany to Korea?
Why adapt the principle of relocation only in solar return
but not in other methods such as direction or prograssions?
isnt that arbitrary?

If we adopt the principle of relocation, it makes pridiction
dauntingly difficult. Although it is possible to have general idea
if the querent will move significantly far distance, and where about and when, but it is impossible to predict in what exact longitude and latitude
the querent will travel.

Then, we cannot fortell the future by the means of revolutions
or any other methods because what if you predict the clients
future based on solar return or other methods but the clients
moved far away and had his birthday in a very different place
from the place where your calculation was based on?
Your prediction will be wrong. And this senario makes
any kinds of prediction unreliable. If you dont want to be wrong,
you would have to cross your fingers and hope that the client
will have his birthday in the same place where you used to calculated
his SR.

Also, solar return and revolution is based on literally
revolution, the "return" of the planets of the natal chart.
Astrology is very person-centered art. You are the center of
the universe and you are where all the major axises of equidial, horizontal and meridian intersect.

The arrangements and positions of the planets at the moment of your birth based on the place where you were born are not the same planets as the planets of some place where you will later live and have your birthday at.

In other words, what is important is the revolution of the planets in your natal chart but not the revolution of the planets where you will later live.

Lets say a person was born in 2009 jan 1 0:00 am in USA.
He moved to Africa on 2010 Feb.
If you calcuated his solar return based on Africa in 2012 somewhere
around Jan 1, you are calculating a solar return chart for someone
who was born in 2009 somewhere around jan 1 0:00 in Africa,
not for the querent who was born in 2009 jan 1 0:00 am in USA.

I would like to hear other thoughts on this
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Sincerely

Jun
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