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Dignity and Combustion
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1369
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoidsoft wrote:

In this way the organization looks at planets at the level of the stars/zodiac (primum mobile), at the level of the planets (lights) and then at the level of the earth (sublunary sphere).


If you are referring to the fact that we did not considerate the position of stars in the houses, yes, obviously I agree there is a difference.

More difficult to understand for me what you mean by

Quote:
What is good for the planet is not necessarily good for the native.


maybe you could explain better?

See Astrojinn in the other twin thread

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5789&start=15

margherita
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 971
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

margherita wrote:
zoidsoft wrote:

In this way the organization looks at planets at the level of the stars/zodiac (primum mobile), at the level of the planets (lights) and then at the level of the earth (sublunary sphere).


If you are referring to the fact that we did not considerate the position of stars in the houses, yes, obviously I agree there is a difference.

More difficult to understand for me what you mean by

Quote:
What is good for the planet is not necessarily good for the native.


maybe you could explain better?

See Astrojinn in the other twin thread

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5789&start=15

margherita


Some conditions such as found in the PNA speak to the planet's ability to conduct business. Schmidt says that some planets are more able than others (for instance planets in their own places / dignities). Schmidt would limit these to domicile, confine, exaltation depending on the context. Also just because a planet is able to do something doesn't mean that it is going to. Some planets are not as motivated as others (this is where the "goad" concept for the angles comes in). Take for example a musician with great ability, but never gets to play at Carnegie Hall - this would be like a well dignified planet that is not connected to the ascendant, has no connection to hylegical places nor the application of the Moon (such have the potential to turn tyrannical). Conversely, a planet without any dignity whatsoever exactly conjunct an angle and with Fortune and application of the Moon, etc, is much like our former president Bush - in the thick of the business without the ability to show for it. Lastly, there are conditions that let you know whether a planet is for your prosecution or defense so to speak - the benefic / malefic modifications. Sect is one of these conditions as well as placement in certain houses, application and separation of the other planets, etc - for instance, an 8th house Mars can be strong by being in its own places and is moderately motivated because it is being turned toward to an angle ("kentron" in Greek - with the first sense as in being in a "center of activity" as opposed to the goad concept where here it is disconnected from the ascendant), if also contrary to sect, it is very much against the native and seeks to do harm. In a condition such as this, what is good for the planet is bad for the native. It would be better if such a planet had less power or was hindered in some other way. In some cases, cadency is one way for a planet that would do harm to the native to be redirected away from the native. Also, Valens says that the chart support (trigon lords, etc) will tell you which direction the benefic / malefic modifications will go; for eminent nativities bring down those around the native before it brings down the native (such as Nixon / Watergate, Hitler, Al Capone, Reverend Jim Jones, etc).
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1369
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoidsoft wrote:
Conversely, a planet without any dignity whatsoever exactly conjunct an angle and with Fortune and application of the Moon, etc, is much like our former president Bush - in the thick of the business without the ability to show for it.


Nice example Smile

Thanks for the more detailed explanation. I'd like very much to see some complete reading about one of Schmidt student.

margherita
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoidsoft wrote:
Conversely, a planet without any dignity whatsoever exactly conjunct an angle and with Fortune and application of the Moon, etc, is much like our former president Bush - in the thick of the business without the ability to show for it.


Whilst I'd hate to supply examples here, I've seen this in the charts of so many talentless musicians, actors, and writers who do make it to public notice it's not even funny.

I realise the implications are more serious when it's a politician, but the infamous phrase 'Nobody has ever gone broke underestimating the tastes of the American public' springs to mind almost instantly here. Was it Barnum who said that? It does not apply just to the United States, but that was the quote.

I've also seen charts like this with mitigation - usually through a connection with the Moon or by a generosity (not sure the Greeks used that), but something like Venus angular in Aries in generosity with Mars in Pisces - and the person is quite talented.
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olivia wrote:
Whilst I'd hate to supply examples here, I've seen this in the charts of so many talentless musicians, actors, and writers who do make it to public notice it's not even funny.


Like on American Idol? (the show is in Vegas BTW). There's a saying in Vegas - it's not what you know, but who you know. These people open the doors to the kentra (circles of activity) by invitation so all you have to do is be liked and be lucky enough to schmooze your way in (angular Moon/fortune and a touch of Venus), but without this you're cadent.

In the past, I've wondered why my software hasn't taken off... At this point it's getting as strong in the basics as the ubiquitous Solar Fire. I've noticed something else as well. When I was first getting started and my programs were pretty amaturish, I was getting all sorts of complements on my work. Now the work is far advanced and all I seem to get are complaints about the smallest of details. Just the other day I saw an old cracked version of Timaeus (verison 5 from 2004) in Arabic:

http://www.alchamel.org/vb/showthread.php?t=4699

This guy is getting all sorts of complements on what is mostly my work (and some of his). When cracking software, it only takes a few hours to find the memory points to insert substitution code and generate a new release. This is a little more advanced than that though because the program is now completely Arabic.

His chart is in the program as well (Khalid) and I noticed that he's in a peak period for ZR (zodiacal releasing) from the lot of spirit. However, the program really has a lot of problems with it now because of the crack (the chart displays are missing the Capricorn glyph and have these ugly scroll bars that won't go away, etc.) But it is probably more useful to you if you know Arabic and don't speak English - therefore it's not what you know, but who you know (culture in this case).

Schmidt told me that in Greek composition, the most important part is usually found in the middle. This is symbolic of the kentron (the center of activity around which everything revolves). Take the Chaldean order of the planets Saturn - Moon. The Sun is in the middle. The angles in traditional astrology are really flanked by (for instance the 10th) by a cadent sign (9th) and a succeedent sign (11th). Again the principle of the center... Also from the Antiochus definitions of which there are 29, definition 15 is in the middle. For those who are not familiar, this definition has to do with heliacal rising and setting. Highway 15 goes through the middle of Vegas, but you cannot look directly at the middle without going blind; this is the nature of the occult.
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Schmidt told me that in Greek composition, the most important part is usually found in the middle. This is symbolic of the kentron (the center of activity around which everything revolves). Take the Chaldean order of the planets Saturn - Moon. The Sun is in the middle. The angles in traditional astrology are really flanked by (for instance the 10th) by a cadent sign (9th) and a succeedent sign (11th). Again the principle of the center... Also from the Antiochus definitions of which there are 29, definition 15 is in the middle. For those who are not familiar, this definition has to do with heliacal rising and setting. Highway 15 goes through the middle of Vegas, but you cannot look directly at the middle without going blind; this is the nature of the occult


Curt:

You was really inspired when writing this post! I quoted only part of it, but i liked it all. Congratulations!

best

Clélia
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clelia Romano wrote:
Quote:
Schmidt told me that in Greek composition, the most important part is usually found in the middle. This is symbolic of the kentron (the center of activity around which everything revolves). Take the Chaldean order of the planets Saturn - Moon. The Sun is in the middle. The angles in traditional astrology are really flanked by (for instance the 10th) by a cadent sign (9th) and a succeedent sign (11th). Again the principle of the center... Also from the Antiochus definitions of which there are 29, definition 15 is in the middle. For those who are not familiar, this definition has to do with heliacal rising and setting. Highway 15 goes through the middle of Vegas, but you cannot look directly at the middle without going blind; this is the nature of the occult


Curt:

You was really inspired when writing this post! I quoted only part of it, but i liked it all. Congratulations!

best

Clélia


Thanks! If you like that, this was written in the same way with much more depth:

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/sitemap.html

Pay very careful attention to that page because there is far more hidden there than meets the eye (the same is true on the header graphics to all the pages on the site). Over 99.9% are probably too hurried to see the true significance of all of it and there are things that you won't think to do if you are not technically inclined that reveal the mysteries.
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Curtis Manwaring
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
[Thanks! If you like that, this was written in the same way with much more depth:

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/sitemap.html

Pay very careful attention to that page because there is far more hidden there than meets the eye (the same is true on the header graphics to all the pages on the site). Over 99.9% are probably too hurried to see the true significance of all of it and there are things that you won't think to do if you are not technically inclined that reveal the mysteries.


Curt, your site is really much better now. I ever imagined why you had designed a site so robotic as your last one, no offense.
The new ( I had already visited it some time ago) is really misterious and very well done. Besides being an astrologer you are certainly a vanguard artist and a very sensitive person.

best wishes

Clélia
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petosiris



Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 141

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
". . . To sum up, however, it should be stated, that nearness to the Sun is harmful to all planets. Certain astrologers, however, claim that Mars is favourable when setting, when he is overwhelmed by the rays of the Sun, for in being subservient to the Sun he loses his natural malefic qualities." Firmicus Maternus, Mathesos , Liber Secundus VIII, Matutine and Vespertine Positions, 2.


Mars is drying and burning (excessive heat). From evening station to setting (and presumably under the rays), it is more cooling, which should make it just heating (which is a beneficent quality) according to Tetrabiblos 1.8... Setting is also sometimes used to refer for every evening position in some authors, if I remember correctly. I wonder if the Arabic preference of occidental Mars is based on this.
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