Horary About Gossip & Losing Friends.

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Hello All,

I don't post here much because I am more inclined to read and learn. It's the most helpful site on the net to me.

I've come here to post a chart about an invasive problem and I'm hoping to get some guidance and learn - far more than what I've been doing on my own.

Some indications are my intuition (which is always right,) and sudden lack of communication and being left out of things with my group of friends (we used to always go out together, no exceptions) now I hear about boat trips and nights out. Right now, a few of them are reaching out to me. We are in our 30's, and this group of friends during the better part of the last 4 years has been strong. It's hard for me to trust or even have this kind of bond women (I've usually been more able to be friends with men all my life). I used to value these people a lot and now I am just distant - and feel really alone. But it's better than the alternative, being with people who gossip about me behind my back...

I think the perceived problem is that I was involved in cast in a tv show (a cute family show) and I feel the issue is that they may be jealous? (This is from input of some other friend not involved in this - and not my core group of friends.) It's funny since I consider them all much more lucky in their careers, more confident and content than I, and they all have relationships (whereas I don't.) I've recently kept replies to them short or cut off contact completely with 2 of them in particular. (Just my intuition).

So here is the chart and my interpretation below. Please note, I'm really a beginner and fuzzy on reception still.

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy71 ... 1289521833

Of course, the glaringly obvious Saturn exalted rests comfortable in the 9th. I can only guess that the position here shows a new territory, perhaps I seem distant, or it's just a new situation? Venus (though retro) is close to MC and I have this natally. Sun - is in the 10th of acclaim, public perception. Mercury, trickster/talk/perhaps even gossip is in the 11th house of friends and so is Mars! They are conjunct and this is very telling and obvious I think. Mercury is in detriment here and I guess behaving badly. Mars has no dignity in Sag.

My friends are symbolized by ruler of 11th, Mars in Sag. From what I know there is no dignity there and in fact Mars in Sag can be a huge "exaggerator".

I am not sure if Moon here still represents me (I think it does) and shows my sadness over the situation. Far off, it could possible suggest ruler of 7th? Open enemy in my hidden house.

POF in my first means (hopefully) I will eventually be ok in this matter. I am worried that my friends are symbolized by Mars and so is the house of communication.

I know that I should look to aspects - Mars (friends) applies to sextile Saturn (me) and I'm not exactly sure what this sextile could be - maybe a confrontation?

This all worries me because I'm a kind hearted person, I don't like to hurt anyone and I have done nothing wrong. I haven't even been a show-off, which I am sure others may do. I did this show for my daughter to experience with me - it's kind of a highlight of a family experiences. A really sweet story. This troubles me a lot. I wish I was better at horary, but I read each day.

I appreciate any helpful information on this chart. Thank you.
Last edited by Maxz on Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hi Maxz
Recently an astrologer friend said to me ?I laugh when people say they don?t gossip; the fact is that cats meow, dogs bark and people gossip?. But I?m sorry you are having a hard time. Although Saturn is essentially dignified, it is accidentally weakened by being placed in a cadent house, and it is in square to the ascendant. So this, together with the Moon in the 12th, which has most recently aspected Saturn, might suggest that you are feeling particularly sensitive and down on yourself right now. (It might be worth checking your birth chart to see if this period is marked by a difficult direction or transit). Venus is also cadent, not angular, but that mirrors the situation of not feeling supported by your friends.

Mars as the 11th house ruler could show that annoyance is in the air about something, but it?s not terribly afflicted. Its in the 11th and not the 7th so your friends are not being described as acting like enemies. Mercury is changing signs and moving towards Mars, so yes, I do think there is some gossip or communication problem which is coming to the surface, but what group of friends doesn?t experience that from time to time? It only becomes horrible when someone is sensitive enough to realise that some unspoken criticism is taking place, or when there is a sense of being ostracised by the group.

Sun in the 10th house is a great indication that the truth can be brought into the open so I wonder if you could speak openly and honestly to one of your friends in private to explain how you feel(Moon in 12th applying by sextile to the received sq of a benefic 12th house ruler). It might feel uncomfortable but could possibly help the situation in a discreet and gentle way. I think a confrontation would be a really bad idea right now, because you are feeling quite vulnerable, but being curt or cutting off contact is only giving them reason to assume that you no longer value their friendship.
Good luck
Deb

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Deb, I'm honoured you answered. Thank you. I love your site - even if horary is still difficult for me. :)

I am just still not 100% sure by what you wrote if the "gossip" is malicious - or are you saying they're just questioning my whereabouts? The latter I can handle, I'd hate to lose friends over stupidity.

Technically, I hear you saying their Mars not terribly afflicted is the gut of the answer. So, we should look at the state of Mars then to see its intention. I thought it was in a bad state here?

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Deb wrote: I think a confrontation would be a really bad idea right now, because you are feeling quite vulnerable, but being curt or cutting off contact is only giving them reason to assume that you no longer value their friendship.
Good luck
Deb
I think you nailed it here as well. I AM cutting off contact because my intuition is telling me something is happening. I'm not sure how you saw this in the chart however. Thanks again.

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Mars is lacking dignity and this probably describes something similar about your friends and the friendships in your life right now - but that's not the same as seeing them signified with an intention to act against you. Sometimes we outgrow our friends and have to lose some to make space for new ones. That could be happening here. I think you need to follow your own instincts, but be wary that good friendship depends on trust - and so by mistrusting their intention and suspecting a negative motive on their part, the friendship is being damaged. That's why I think its best to 'open your heart' with someone about this if you can. I think my main point would be that the mistrust is not helping matters - with that 12th house Moon you might be acting against your own interests by isolating yourself physically whilst being so emotionally affected by all this.

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Are you aka "Cairene"? I have an astrological memory of an elephant and this looks a lot like your chart. If so, you do see Mars conjunct your Sun in the 11th currently in natal, right? Also, your natal 11th ruler is Jupiter in Scorpio conj Neptune, and Moon in Aqua squares it from the 2nd - Neptune is currently messing with that influence. Do not underestimate Neptune. Neptune can just be so confusing, as if there is a cloud of haze over you. I have a difficult Neptune influence on friendships currently too, so I can relate. I have it in the 8th square my 11th house Sun. You keep mentioning "intuition," so I would just think about Neptune for a bit longer! Neptune can make you think you are quite intuitive about something when you have the wrong idea. I agree with Deb that your natal might show a difficult transit or other influence going on currently.

Neptune is at least moving forward now.

Anyway, back to your horary!
I used to value these people a lot and now I am just distant - and feel really alone. But it's better than the alternative, being with people who gossip about me behind my back...
I would think it's quite natural for Saturn to feel this way, since it's in her nature to be more melancholy and think that others do not care for her even when that is not the case.

Normally when I think of gossip and cattiness, I will look especially at the relationship of Venus to the quesited, but also of course Mercury. Mercury did recently square Neptune (if you use Neptune), which suggests some sort of deception or confusion in communications, and Mercury being in a mute sign might exacerbate that because you won't have known what was said and might jump to bad conclusions. If you do have difficult Neptune transits, what you fear might be an illusion.

The X-files astrology website is one reference I use a lot for horary, even though they focus on natal, and I remember reading about Mars ruling or in the 11th in a chart and it showing friends who are very outspoken, have strong personalities, can be "fighters" literally (such as a policewoman, etc.) or figuratively. This can lead to more arguments or difficulties (sudden breaks) in friendship, but that's not always the case. Your friends might be more masculine and easier for you to relate to, since you feel a connection to masculine energies. Mars and Saturn are not naturally affinitive towards one another though, and it does seem like you and your friends differ a bit and are not really in sync, although Saturn does have a difficult time forming bonds with anyone. The Mars-Saturn sextile between you and quesited, 11th ruler, does not seem to suggest that they are working against you (on purpose at least), although there is a lack of reception there, which requires work. I would just relate to your natal on the Neptune influences - if you do have the transits - and try to make sense of what you're feeling.

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Sorry about not replying promptly. It's just been hard to deal with, as you can tell with Moon in 12th. :-?

Thank you for such good advice, Deb. :(

And Tanit, you again are a wealth of knowledge. I love to read your input always. Deb's suggestion to look at my natal is right on. Tanit, you're right, there are really hard aspects for me right now. First some problems were happening with misunderstandings with people online, then in public, I was even experiencing a lot of accidents stemming from people bumping into me, or hurting me in one way or another in my daily commute to work. All these outside hard influences take a toll! But anyway, I'm strong. I'll ride the transits out. I really appreciate your pointing it all out to me. I saw that 11th house activity to my Sun! WOW. And I see the Neptune influences now, I had no idea about this before.

Deb - just to let you know. One of my friends reached out before I made this chart and finally we're meeting for lunch and a chat. Just to catch up. I'll bring up the issue delicately. (I further sent an email to everyone telling them I've been off Facebook for certain reasons and they can continue to keep in touch - but no one replied.) Funny that....

Anyway, let's see how it goes.

Thanks for helping me see the patterns behind this and the REAL reasons. It makes me feel better.

I'm off to research more about the transits and the horary aspects you both pointed out now. THANK YOU!

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Tanit wrote: I have a difficult Neptune influence on friendships currently too, so I can relate. I have it in the 8th square my 11th house Sun.
Sorry to hear this. (It's interesting how different aspects can cause similiar situations though.) Are you experiencing something close to what I'm going through?

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Maxz - I have lost a great deal of "friends" since last yr, but not of my own choosing. They turned away during a time I needed them most. For me it is a solar issue, and part of the problem is that while losing friends, my own identity has been questioned. I took it very personally and wondered if there was something wrong with me to make so many turn against me all at once, but I think with time I have realized that those who have been lost were not true friends to begin with and did not truly know me, nor, perhaps, I them. Yours is a lunar issue, so you might question your own inner and emotional needs in friendships, meaning those who are not giving that are being tested, and if lost might be for the best. After a while, the loss got easier and I learned to accept it and even am glad now that they are out of my life.

A Moon-Neptune link does seem like your intuition would be heightened, and I think horary and astrology in general is a good outlet. Sometimes Neptune can exaggerate our perception too much though, such that logic is forgotten over feeling, and I think keeping a rational head is important even when using intuition. Sometimes it is easier to channel the Neptune forces into helping others rather than using it for your own issues, because it is hard to maintain an objective view. Anyway, good luck with your transits and I hope you sort out your true friends!

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Tanit wrote:Maxz - I have lost a great deal of "friends" since last yr, but not of my own choosing. They turned away during a time I needed them most. For me it is a solar issue, and part of the problem is that while losing friends, my own identity has been questioned. I took it very personally and wondered if there was something wrong with me to make so many turn against me all at once, but I think with time I have realized that those who have been lost were not true friends to begin with and did not truly know me, nor, perhaps, I them. Yours is a lunar issue, so you might question your own inner and emotional needs in friendships, meaning those who are not giving that are being tested, and if lost might be for the best. After a while, the loss got easier and I learned to accept it and even am glad now that they are out of my life.

A Moon-Neptune link does seem like your intuition would be heightened, and I think horary and astrology in general is a good outlet. Sometimes Neptune can exaggerate our perception too much though, such that logic is forgotten over feeling, and I think keeping a rational head is important even when using intuition. Sometimes it is easier to channel the Neptune forces into helping others rather than using it for your own issues, because it is hard to maintain an objective view. Anyway, good luck with your transits and I hope you sort out your true friends!
I'm sorry I haven't responded until now Tanit, because I do value your story shared, and I feel exactly what you've gone through this year. A lot has transpired since this chart and I was waiting to see how it will unfold. Well, more has happened and today I'm extremely pissed off.

I can identify when you say it's more of an internal-lunar issue. I feel it. My lunar issue, if we call it that, is also about trust and questioning people's values and morals. ie: When someone tells me something in confidence for instance, it will not leave my lips if they tell me that's what they request of me.

Today, more has transpired in this story. I considered this person "C" my best friend. Another mutual friend, "M" emailed me and was talking about the exact secret (for lack of a better word) that I told "C" specifically not to tell. It's the one thing I hold very private and won't accept betrayal about. I feel very strongly about it. C knows this. She in turn knows that I know things about her and she knows (with my Merc in Cap, 12H) that no one will ever get out of me.

Anyway, these two were talking and it was known that this secret was passed around. I'm so furious right now that I can't read the chart straight - but I'll try.

I asked: "What should I do about C?"

I believe the planetary hour ruler at the time of the chart was Saturn but Sun rises. I don't think this agrees - so perhaps it's not to be judged? Lilly says the question is radical if the planetary hour ruler and the asc are of one triplicity or nature and Sun and Saturn are of the most radically different planets -so does this make my chart unfit to judge?

I'm not sure at this point whether to take C as 7th H for the fact that I feel she's an outright open enemy right now (because I'm livid) or still as 11th.

AC is Sun in Capricorn and from my reading here, when Sun comes to Capricorn it experiences a kind of "extinguishing" of its natural brilliant qualities. I am not usually Sun in a horary chart. Sun is close to Mars, but I believe Sun and Mars don't completely conjunct in this sign.

I'm also Moon in 10th, in Aries and this is descriptive of me right now. Feelings hurt and angry and wanting to confront the two - and let all the anger out.

If the former friend is Venus, she is in Sag, in my 5th taking this lightly. Not really seeing and/or being carefree. It's her turned 11th, so perhaps she also thinks we're still friends.

There are no aspects to the main signifactors, so perhaps this is where the story ends? [/quote]

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Maxz - I am sorry you are having more issues with this transit, but it is to be expected. If you do not feel you can trust such friends and that they are not fulfilling your needs, you might want to heed what you are feeling, but I also think you should not go based only off of what you are feeling (make sure you have all of the info first). It is very likely friends will be lost with this transit, however. You should look at such things as what your Moon-Jupiter require in order to be happy - for my Sun, it is opposite Uranus and I need a lot of freedom to express myself and not feel judged (which is exactly what happens a lot). Moon in Aqu does sometimes have trust issues due to previous hurts and is good at putting up walls in order to not go through pain again, but it's better not to avoid situations - confronting and sorting out seems more constructive (don't assume the worst). It could be a misunderstanding or that your friend didn't realize you didn't want to share this info among other friends - it might not have been intentionally cruel. As Deb was mentioning, the Sun in the first horary shows truths being revealed and it's best to focus on getting to the heart of a situation, so I wouldn't ignore the issue or let it seethe, I would talk openly to your friends and express your concerns. You need to hear their side of things. People do make mistakes though, and they need to know it hurt you that they shared this info.

I don't see the horary posted or the info, so I am not sure about what is going on there, but the first chart probably provides a lot of useful info for friendship issues as well as your natal (SR, transits, profections, etc.).