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Suicidal Loneliness

 
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Heart-Shaped Cross



Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 8

Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:22 am    Post subject: Suicidal Loneliness Reply with quote

I'm a born lover; a dead-in-the-water romantic. It's demoralizing, to say the least. Nearly every hour of every day, I long and I lament. Or else, I drown my longing and lamentation in myriad forms of decadent escape. My creativity is at an all-time low. My self-esteem is virtually non-existent. Each successive beat of my heart disturbs the jagged barb lodged in my breast. Where is she?!?!?! I'm running on fumes here....

11/06/1978
11:38am EST
Boston, MA
42N 21'30"
71W 03'37"


please help,
Stephen
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"Judgment is the antithesis of understanding."
- H.S.C.
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 566

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Suicidal Loneliness Reply with quote

Heart-Shaped Cross wrote:
I'm a born lover; a dead-in-the-water romantic. It's demoralizing, to say the least. Nearly every hour of every day, I long and I lament. Or else, I drown my longing and lamentation in myriad forms of decadent escape. My creativity is at an all-time low. My self-esteem is virtually non-existent. Each successive beat of my heart disturbs the jagged barb lodged in my breast. Where is she?!?!?! I'm running on fumes here....

please help,
Stephen


Wow! I might mention that you're a bit of a poet too!!!! (the heartbroken type...) Take it easy now...

But who is "She"? Are you asking when will I find the love of my life? Or is "She" someone you knew who walked away? What exactly is your question? And what are you lamenting?

A little background information is always helpful in coming up with a better understanding of the chart.

Feel better. Life WILL get better (trust me on this one - been there, done that!!!)

Taurus7
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3464
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen,

I don't like answering posts like this for a variety of reasons, and one is that I'm not a shrink. But there are two things in the chart that should be pointed out.

1) Who is "she?" Well if you're looking for the love of your life the reason you can't see her is that Venus is combust and in detriment in your chart. Combustion implies the Sun (you, your ego) blinds you to the expression of the planet that is combust. Being unable to see her is part of your nature and you have to make a more conscious effort to define what it is you're looking for and then go and find it.

2) I attended a lecture by Rob Hand a few years back and a situation came up that is analogous to your chart. You have Capricorn rising ruled by Saturn in Virgo in the 8th. Hand pointed out that having the ruler of the first in the 8th or ruler of the 8th in the first is indicative of self destructive behavior. [Note this is only one indication: it is not a gurantee that everyone with this configuration will suffer from it] This can be anything from lack of confidence all the way up to suicidal tendencies. I'm not going any further than that, but defeatist attitudes are part of this. If you need help, go and get it and tell the shrink what you told us. You're only fated if you let yourself be fated.

Tom

PS I woud not grant much importance to the Moon Jupiter opposiiton. At 8 degrees it is very wide and there are tighter aspects in your chart which would be of more importance. Others may disagree with me on this.
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Heart-Shaped Cross



Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 8

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taurus,

Thank you. The "she" is proverbial. Although, there was a certain girl I made eye contact with in Feb. of 2003..... ((I know how that sounds[/u.)) Actually, I'm not entirely sure she wasn't an angel in thin disguise.


Tom,

I know how you feel. But let me assure you, I've all but exhausted the conventional methods at my disposal. I'm in therapy. I'm on meds -- though I'm presently looking into herbs, acupuncture, and the like...

I wish I knew what you meant by my being "unable to see her", and it being a part of my nature.

I'm not at all surprised to hear Rob Hand's assessment. I'd also heard that the Scorpio II (Pisces Decan) is potentially the most self-distructive position on the chart (see: Sun, Venus, Uranus, & MC Square Jupiter).

Do you suppose its possible that these "self-destructive" conditions might perhaps be beneficial for a spiritual transcending of the self? Or is that just another pipe dream?

thanks again,
Steve
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- H.S.C.
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3464
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I know how you feel. But let me assure you, I've all but exhausted the conventional methods at my disposal. I'm in therapy. I'm on meds -- though I'm presently looking into herbs, acupuncture, and the like...


The problem with doing all this is that the individual is usually seeking a method or technique that will do what has to be done for him, rather than doing the actual work. Pick something and work with it and at it. Therapy doesn't "do" anything. You do it.

Quote:
I wish I knew what you meant by my being "unable to see her", and it being a part of my nature.


Whoever "she" is, and I take that to mean some kind of ideal or "type" if you will, you wouldn't recognize her if she stood in front of you with a sign around her neck. Your Sun gets in the way. It obliterates her. Maybe what you think you want isn't what you want or isn't what you need at all.

So you're homework assignment is to figure out why that happens. The Sun, in traditional astrology, is in your 10th house (within 5 degrees of the cusp) and co-rules the 7th house of others. The Sun is sextile Saturn (who puts the brakes on) your ASC ruler. Your Moon, ruler of the 7th is in your first disposited by the Same Saturn that sextiles the Sun. There is so much of "you" involved (ASC, ASC ruler, Sun) here that finding someone else is difficult for you. You probably only see them in terms of yourself rather than for who or what they are. You're blind to others or perhaps you overwhelm them (Cancer on the DSC
).


Quote:
I'm not at all surprised to hear Rob Hand's assessment. I'd also heard that the Scorpio II (Pisces Decan) is potentially the most self-distructive position on the chart (see: Sun, Venus, Uranus, & MC Square Jupiter).


I don't use decans that way, and I've never heard that, but some might think it is true. Jupiter, in my view is too wide to exert much influence on the Sun, Venus, Uranus combination. Look instead to the Mars (desire) Mercury (ruler of the 5th house of romance) conjunction. Mercury is in detriment showing difficutlies in that area, but since they are in the fortunate 11th house, I'd look to friends for Romance. In other words, don't rush into a relationship; let it begin as a friendship and let it grow. Jupiter, ruler of the 11th is in a somewhat wide trine to this conjunction and placed in the 7th strengthens the possibilities. Notice, too the Moon applies to a sextile of the conjunction and rules the 7th. This is where you need to concentrate. The triple conjunction near the MC is significant, but it may provide the difficulties rather than the answers.

Quote:
Do you suppose its possible that these "self-destructive" conditions might perhaps be beneficial for a spiritual transcending of the self? Or is that just another pipe dream?


I am not a modern astrologer, and I think that is they kind of question a modern would tackle. I don't think self destructive behavior is ever beneficial. Look at the words "self destructive." The native hurts himself. That is not desireable, although certain individuals may have a perverse desire for it. So, no it isn't transcending. It is a problem. But problems have solutions. Identifying the problem, so the saying goes, is the first step towards solving it. Therefore it is important to identify the problem accurately. That is the first step; then you have to solve it.

Do you engage in self destructive behavior? Well yes I do. Well then stop it! That isn't transcedence; that's acting like an adult.

"But if I don't destroy myself, whatever will I do?" The opposite of course. Build yourself up.

"How?"

Well for that you need the shrink's help, but I'll point you in a direction without giving you an answer because I don't have an answer. In the same workshop I referred to previously, Hand taught his audience to take a weak planet in the chart, the one giving you the most trouble, and acting as if the planet were in its opposite position. You mentioned "she" so the universal significator for "she" is Venus and yours sucks. She is the exaltation ruler of your 2nd house (self worth), she rules the 4th of home and family, your foundation, and she rules the 9th house of spirituality (no not the 12th). She has the saving grace of being angular but she is combust in detriment, so all those areas are difficult for you.

Now what if that Venus were in the 4th house in this chart? She would be in Taurus, the sign of her rulership. She would be strong. Lust (Venus in Scorpio) would turn to love, your sense of self would improve, and your spiritual sense would have meaning to you. Learn everything you can about Venus in Taurus and "act as if" that were the case in your life. Find out how to apply that Venus in Taurus to your life. You have to make a conscious decision to work within that framework and create what you genuinely need. No work; no results. Think about it, and expect initial failure. You're not good at Venus in Taurus, yet. But you will be.

Good luck,

Tom
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Heart-Shaped Cross



Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 8

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Tom. You've given me a lot to think about - or should I say a lot to do? - and I really appreciate the effort/help. I'll let you know what I come up with after I've had some time to make use of it.

Thanx,
Steve
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- H.S.C.
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom,

I like the idea of taking the weakest planet in your chart and acting as if it were in the place it would be strongest, taking those ideas and applying them to your life. what a great idea! I think I will look at my own chart and see where I can apply this idea... I think you're onto a big something here.

Granny Leery
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HoraryQueen



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 104

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm HEEEEEEERE.

Quick, never mind the cr@p weather, I'll keep you warm!!

Lala Happy
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Susan,
Edinburgh.
www.horaryqueen.co.uk
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