If you could not put a fixed sign on the ascendant for a wedding election because when you look at both parties' charts, their 6th, 8th, and 12th houses manage to have all the fixed signs on the cusps between them, would you go with a mutable or a cardinal sign?

I know there's no perfect election, but this is really bugging me. A friend is having a problem with a marriage election on account of this, and I'm hung up on a wedding election for another pair of friends that I'm doing myself that's hit the same snag.

Go with the best-placed sign for both persons whether it's cardinal or mutable?

All advice appreciated.

Hello Olivia...

I would go with mutable, then cardinal. But above all, I would look at the natal chart to find a sign that promisses good possibilities for both parties. That way, even if it does not last as a fixed sign would promise, at least it will be worth the trouble.

Hi Olivia
I choice cardinal sign like ASC and DSC. Ramsey - about marriage election - considers only I (husband), VII (wife), IV (marriage), X (legal) and the classic significators Venus, Jupiter, Moon and Sun - well dignified. In addition he declares:

[b]Astrologia Restaurata[/b], [b]p. 175ss[/b] wrote:Aries, Cancer, Libra and Aquaries, are to be avoided in Marriage; yet I conceive (with some of the Ancients) Libra may be chosen for betrothing or contracting, though not for marrying.

Taurus from the first degree to the twentieth is good, from the twentieth to the end bad. The first fifteen degrees of Gemini are good, the last bad. The whole sign of Leo is good, only it causeth the one to deceive the other of their substance.

Virgo signifieth the woman shall soon lose her husband; wherefore it may be beneficial to her, though pernicious to him, women seldom loving so affectionately as men.

The first fifteen degrees of Scorpio are good to Marry a Maid or Virgin in, for that it denotes she will be obedient, good and chaste, also loving to her husband: but the latter fifteen degrees are altogether to be rejected in that it causeth the Woman to be of disposition quite contrary; viz. lewd, a Brawler, Perfidious, unconstant, envious, malitious and disobedient, &c.

Sagittary is indifferent, as some of the Ancients hold; I for my part cannot agree to reject it.

The first ten degrees of Capricorn are to be neglected, yet the other two last faces are good, and signifie the woman shall be loving and tractable to the will and desire of the man, and they are better in a Widow then a Maid, excepting they cause but few children.

Note that the Moon in Aquaries at the time of Marriage, causeth the woman to be of a manly spirit and disobedient to her husband.

Pisces is good, in that it denotes the woman to be loving and just; yet it will also cause her to be addicted to twatling and prating, which will now and then lessen the mans love towards her.

The malefic houses don't center in this election. Isnt?

AD

We can't use Aquarius, Leo, Taurus, Scorpio, Aries, or Cancer.

Now, were the world just, I'd use Gemini, as he has Jupiter cazimi there natally. But of course that's going to put the South Node in 1 over the next year - definite deal-breaker. Course, we don't want it in 7, either, so that kind of knocks out Sag as well.

Jupiter and Mercury will conjunct soon and both be direct, but - Saturn's opposing them, applying. Problem is, when they're in good aspect during the rest of the year, one or the other of them is retrograde.

I need to relax for a bit here and perhaps some inspiration will hit.

I don't know about a time-frame, but have you checked the possibility of putting a benign fixed star in pole-position?
The only one I can readily think of, ofcourse, is Spica, and having L1 or L7 or a waxing Moon on it might give great advantage in terms of protecion against evils indicated elsewhere in the chart...
As you say, no election can be perfect!

Herman

Olivia,

I've been doing Electionals since '87' with a lot of success. Of course all of the collective wisdom from past authors and the astrologers who have worked upon this great astrology arena are worthy of our inspection.

Vivian E. Robson took most of his data from Ramsey in his book 'Electional Astrology'. Within that book Robson points out that nothing can be made using an electional that is Not in the Natal horoscope. He also states Progressions have to show this at the time.

I might add, and Robson dosen't state this in his book, but when the Library at Alexandria was burned by the foolish ruler, astrology was crippled in that mathematics in Europe were so hampered that most astrologers opted to do progressions as the geometry required in Directions wasn't utilized by most astrologers. In other words Primary Directions will show more than Progressions actually do.

Robson states, and I have many charts that verify this, 'that Fixed signs show longevity, Cardinal is fast and short duration, while Common or Mutable signs are a medium amount of time when on the angles.' Of course when the ruling planet of those angles is in fixed signs with good aspects it helps for perseverence.

I would go with Sco rising, the first 15 degrees, or Leo Asc., with the Sun in a fixed sign. Of course I'd love to see the up and coming Venus Cjt Jupiter as Venus as lord of the Electional's 7th.

Why Sco rising? It's obvious the sensuality of the early part of the marriage and the great Mars and Pluto fortifications with Anthrodite as Lord of the 7th.

To this date I can't figure out why Robson justifys a early within 15 rising of Sco as that's surrounded by the claws of the scorpion or the latter part of the 'burned path'.

Of course a nice transit to each of the potential newlyweds is nice too.

Beware however, if we are dealing with natives with very afflicted maps regarding the 7th, even with the best Electionals they have thier own charts they will still be dealing with accordingly.

Clinton Garret Soule

A wise one knows the true expert is one who realizes how little they know

See, a Scorp rising chart is almost PERFECT - but Scorp rules the groom's natal 12th house.

Setting that aside, we'd have Jupiter in 7 (it's at 29 Aries, and at 2 degrees out, I'd count it as in 7), Venus in Taurus in 7, Moon in Taurus in 7 transferring light to Mars from Venus in Taurus in 7. And Merc in 7 for good measure.

I realise that Mars is detrimented in Taurus, but with the transfer of light, Venus should push enough dignity on it to make it acceptable - and it does tie the newleyweds together - in a good way, I think.

As a bonus, Saturn gets tucked away in 12 not aspecting the moon or the primary significators, and we've even got the North Node in 2, trining and ruled by Jupiter, which ought to give them some money, too. Sun gets knocked into 8 - but - it conjuncts his natal cazimi Jupiter.

The more I look at it, the more I'm thinking this is the one to go with despite the 12th house on the ascendant problem.

Olivia,

The following chart is only an idea to think about Not the actual good marriage chart. Note the Venus cjt. Jupiter and Sco asc., with the Moon trining Venus.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid= ... r=1&nho2=1

As you well know in doing electionals one looks at many choice charts to make the best selection.

This is Not a chosen chart, not enough time analizing but it's a worthy ballpark choice.

Clinton Garrett Soule

A wise one knows the true expert is one who realizes how little they know

Not too far off the one we're working with now.

Hour is Jupiter, and this is the chart:

Olivia,

Yes I hated that 29 degree Mars in the quick hypothetical electional that I sent you last. It's a shame the spirits won't allow a great cjt. from Venus to Jupiter.

The one below has Mars on the 7th, Never would I do this, but I hate Mars in the 7th for obvious reasons.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid= ... r=1&nho2=1

And Jupiter Lord of the 2nd, and Mercury lord of the 8th aren't in great shape either.

Olivia I love your Sun trine Saturn, but that Rx Saturn as lord of the 4th I distain.. Lost a great elk in a hunting chart with that 4th(Saturn Rx), end of the matter. More on that later but in that hunt with Sco asc., Moon cjt. Venus in the 10H(I was practically on top of him).

I'll refresh my memory from my files on that electional within the next 24 hours; it may shed some light on the outcome.

Clinton Garrett Soule

A wise one knows the true expert is one who realizes how little they know

It's always hard to give event chart advice without the natal charts. There are many generalizations out there that are hard to ignore, like essentially poor malefics on an angle, avoiding cardinal influences because they are unstable, but we all have personal influences that are sensitive in our charts.

Say if someone were to plan a Gemini-spree on my wedding day, it would move those planets into my 12th house, and T-square my natal Moon in Sag -Saturn in Virgo square (L1/L7), so I can just tell you it's not always going to be a pleasant influence. I am sure the same can be said for some people with sensitive Taurus placements. Looking at past major events might especially show sore spots.

If you have to stick with this one, I would put Mars more towards the 6th and Venus then becomes more angular also. Jupiter is probably mitigating Mars a bit (although supposedly he's more so naturally mitigated by Venus than by Jupiter because he is fond of her), and also is received by Moon/Venus, I would rather have Mars in detriment/out of sect cadent than Saturn in exaltation/in sect cadent, even if retro. Saturn's in his Joy, but what he Joys in most other people do not (at least people who are not sadists).

I never like it when one of the 1st/7th lords are in their own house while the other is in detriment, though. It seems like a recipe for an unequal partnership. I realize Mars is received here by a dignified Moon (and technically Venus can receive him also), but I would hope more so for a friendly sign for both parties, such as Capricorn for Mars and Venus, or perhaps a sextile/trine where one is not lording over the other in a forceful conjunction. L1 is usually viewed as the groom.

Darn, I know Cancer is supposedly bad, but I liked Cancer Moon better (June 4th), increasing in light in the 9th sextile Venus/Mars conjunction in the 7th. Unfortunately, it put Venus w/ Algol and Moon is square Saturn.

Who doesn't want good change... cardinal isn't always bad. Taurus is rather rigid and stubborn. One thing I abhor about fixed signs is their inability to accept change. Relationships should involve growth. We don't still follow a lot of ancient practices when it comes to relationships, including monotany and a lack of equality. Again, I think it depends so much on the people involved!