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Will I get my wages on the 24th? (Answer known)
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 685

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:34 pm    Post subject: Will I get my wages on the 24th? (Answer known) Reply with quote

Hi,

I drew up this horary for myself a couple of weeks ago enquiring whether or not I would get the wages I am owed by my previous employer. I left the job 2 weeks before this chart and it was short-term contract. The reason I was unsure of getting them was that this employer has a reputation of either delaying the paying of wages or paying on time but less than is owed. As the title says, the date the wages were due was today (the 24th) and the business day is over so the matter enquired is concluded. I am curious to see what conclusions some of you come to with the aid of this horary.

Cheers.

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PFN



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
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Location: Ouro Preto, Brasil

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have to say yes, you did receive your wages.

Moon (ruler of 11th) applies to Venus (ruler of 2nd) by a degree.

I do not think that the aspect being an opposition is of great consequence here, because it only shows you parting ways with 10th house dwellers. The same is shown by Mercury already leaving the Sun.

What I can not make out of it is the eclipse, so I'll refrain from giving any opinions on that.
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Deb
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's surely significant that Saturn is sitting ont he 2nd house cusp though?
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GR



Joined: 14 May 2005
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Location: USA

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
It's surely significant that Saturn is sitting ont he 2nd house cusp though?


Saturn in the 2nd does concern me, as does the Dragon's Tail in the 10th and the Moon's last aspect being the opposition to Mars. I'm thinking he didn't get the full amount on time, maybe with a dubious promise for the rest later?
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Smile
Here's my take on the chart:
the ruler of the 1st combust and conjunct the south node in the 10th seems to denote personal damage/fear/helplessness through profession/superior(s). Since Mercury is joining no other planet before leaving Gemini, no further info. is to be drawn from him.

Then I look at the Moon, ruler of the house of wages(the 11th). She's angular and is committing her disposition to Venus on MC(ruler of the 2nd) which, in turn, immediately applies to Saturn on the cusp of the 2nd by trine, where he has the dignity of exaltation, triplicity and term so he has the final word on the outcome of the matter. Since Venus's application is by a harmonious aspect, I'd say that Saturn receives her disposition and accomplishes the matter, all the more so because he also rules the POF and is the almuten of the cusp of 2nd. However, being a greater malefic, Saturn has the tendency of creating problems/obstacles on the road to fulfillment of desires...moreover,he has no natural analogy with movable property/increase of things(after all, he's also occidental, under the horizon in a day chart and in a feminine quadrant) so my final judgment would be that he provided only a part of the wages and the rest will come later, delays/waiting being one of his favorite pastime activities. The additional confirmation in this regard I find in the cadent POF in the 6th co present with a square aspect of the out of sect Mars in the 9th in its detriment, denoting possible disruption in the expected outcome.

Regards,
Goran
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I'll just let you all know what happened with this particular chart.

In my own delineation I pretty much came to the conclusion that everyone else has - namely that I would get some of the money on that date and the rest later or that I would get nothing and get it later.

I used Lilly's section entitled:

"If the Querent shall obtaine the Substance which he demands, or hath lent, or the Goods he hath pawned".

At the time I saw the whole thing as a transaction and not an employer paying me. I have no idea why I thought that, but that's how I did it. Perhaps because we never left on the best of terms, I don't know.

I saw no contact between the Moon or Mercury and Mars, the other person's finances, but the applying trine from Venus to Saturn and the Moon's appyling sextile to Saturn gave me some hope, also Lilly states:

"Or if the Lord of the Ascendant or the Moon be joyned to a fortunate Planet, and he well placed either in the 10th or 11th, the matter shall be perfected, though there be no reception"

I saw Venus as being the fortunate planet but the opposition concerned me, so I decided to expect nothing and I'd see what happened on the 24th.

Well I went to the bank yesterday morning and nothing was there, so I thought "ain't astrology great!". Thing is I went back later on in the evening to get some money out and not only had the full amount been put in, but in an uncharacteristic move, the boss had put an extra week's wages in!

For me, Saturn's dignified state and placement in the 2nd house was key but, as Goran has already pointed out, he isn't known for his beneficence. Does anyone else have a different thought to my own regarding this outcome?
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good for you, Konrad! Thumbs up

What I've learned from this example is that a highly dignified planet(even if malefic!) posited in the house of the quesited matter will accomplish the matter inquired about, exactly as the ancients said it probably would, being as good as a benefic. I made a mistake in exaggerating its malefic influence, though he's clearly a malefic in its sect.
He even managed to bring extra week's wages in!(that was presumably done to compensate you for the waiting).
Thank you for sharing this interesting example with us Smile

Regards,
Goran


Last edited by cor scorpii on Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Carol



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edit: Deleted. Just saw the result, and I was way off.
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GR



Joined: 14 May 2005
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Konrad, I'm glad you got your money!
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Konrad



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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!

I appreciate the lesson on Horary more but unforseen generosity is always nice.
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Carol



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it's great for you Konrad (Yay!) but not so great for horary IMO.

It's just so hard to accept that the main significators, Mercury/querent and Venus/querent's money could be in opposition to Moon/employer's money with no reception whatsoever (and Moon even being in Mercury's detriment) but still not only come together but with a bonus no less!

Didn't Lilly basically say that doesn't happen with an opposition or if it does, the querent would be sorry it did? Which of course doesn't appear could possibly be the case here in any way.

Sure, the Moon and Venus make that sextile and trine to Saturn dignified in the 2nd, but Saturn's still Saturn (delay, obstacles), and it's not even a main significator, so how could it trump all that other major stuff without being a fluke or exception to the usual horary rules and principles?
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Konrad



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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carol wrote:
Yes, it's great for you Konrad (Yay!) but not so great for horary IMO.

It's just so hard to accept that the main significators, Mercury/querent and Venus/querent's money could be in opposition to Moon/employer's money with no reception whatsoever (and Moon even being in Mercury's detriment) but still not only come together but with a bonus no less!

Didn't Lilly basically say that doesn't happen with an opposition or if it does, the querent would be sorry it did? Which of course doesn't appear could possibly be the case here in any way.

Sure, the Moon and Venus make that sextile and trine to Saturn dignified in the 2nd, but Saturn's still Saturn (delay, obstacles), and it's not even a main significator, so how could it trump all that other major stuff without being a fluke or exception to the usual horary rules and principles?


Well Saturn is the exalted ruler of the 2nd and in the 2nd while being aspected by trine with mutual reception from the domicile lord of the 2nd, Venus, who is bang on the MC, so I don't think he's too bad in this chart.

I don't think it's a case of anything in any chart "trumping" anything else, I think you have to look at each chart's individual pieces and create the puzzle from whatever is on offer. I think it's obvious that Saturn was going to have a say in this matter for the reasons I listed above but I do admit, I didn't think he would signify something so bountiful.

As for oppositions, I don't really know what to say. I said in a previous post, I treated this as a 1st/7th transaction, maybe I was correct to do so? I also have charts for situations in my own life which have turned out just fine with an opposition, so again I think you have to treat it as another piece of a bigger puzzle rather than the puzzle itself.

I try to approach these things with an open-mind and use books like Christian Astrology as guides and not rule-books; in my mind, experience trumps anything I read in a book. So I will remember this experience and apply the principles I have learned from it in the future.
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Carol



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well Saturn is the exalted ruler of the 2nd and in the 2nd...

As for oppositions, I don't really know what to say. I said in a previous post, I treated this as a 1st/7th transaction, maybe I was correct to do so?...


Good point about that Saturn being the exalted ruler (also almuten) of the 2nd.

I had originally dismissed the strength of the 1st/7th usage (with Mercury/1st sextiling Jupiter/7th after it changed to Cancer and being in Jupiter's exaltation), because Jupiter is in the 8th in the house system you used, but with Regiomontanus I see it's in the 9th, so yes, I see better what you mean now.

So that makes it all a lot easier to reconcile. Thanks Konrad! I'll sleep easier now Very Happy
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Deb
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a very good example Konrad - thanks for posting it. And well done to PFN for calling it just right. I glanced at the chart quickly and noticed the position of Saturn on the 2nd. When Cor Scorpii posted I thought that expressed what I would have said too. But of course I hadn't noticed the applying trine from Venus, angular on the MC and commiting its disposition onto Saturn.

I was also influenced by asc-ruler Mercury, essentially dignified but combust on the south node - but I think that relates more to the querent than the quesited. Can you add anything that helps to make sense of that?

Thanks again - it's good to get these kinds of examples into the forum.

Deb
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem Deb, that is the exact reason I posted it.

Well I got sacked from the job early (it was a short term contract) for no other reason than the owner is a fickle man and was showng off his manliness in front of a woman. I saw it coming a mile off, so it wasn't a shock and I don't feel bad about it as it was just an in-between kind of thing.

The only thing I can think of is that I had absolutley no control over the situation and that I fully expected foul-play as he has a horrible reputation as an employer and in paying his staff. I was even told by another employee that it was "great" that she got paid for all of the days she had done that month which in a functioning business, should be the normal occurance.

I thought the combustion summed that up quite well since a planet in it's domicile is said to be in it's chariot.
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