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In this thread on 9/11/01 (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewt ... dd490009ee), I commented on the things that I would look out for in an Ingress figure if some major negative event was likely to occur. This is what I wrote:

*2 main things:
1. Angular malefics, especially if one tightly conjunct or opposed the rising degree. Saturn is more malefic than Mars. Uranus counts. For example, Uranus on the rising degree in the ingress figure preceding the Nagasaki nuclear bombing). Another example is Saturn/Cancer exactly on the rising degree of the 2004 Capricorn ingress in Thailand preceding the December 26th Indian Ocean Tsunami.

2. Moon in a malefic configuration. Easiest to spot if separating from one malefic and applying to the other - orb must be tight (the tighter the orb, the more likely some significant negative event will occur). An example: See the Aries ingrees for Los Angeles in 1992 preceding the rioting where Moon separates from Saturn and tightly applies to Mars. Saturn and Mars were angular (in the rising sign, Aquarius) in the same ingress in New York (1993 WTC bombing happened under this ingress). Planet can also be accidental malefic - see Venus/Aries/12th in the chart below.


Here is the Aries ingress for Oslo:
Image
Condition 1 is occurs as Uranus is conjunct the Sun 1 degree from the IC. Also, Mars/Pisces is considered angular as it is in the same sign as the IC - this is something I underestimated in my first post (which was posted while the Utoya island attack was probably still going on). Most fatalities occured on the Island, at the waters edge or in the water - this is Mars/Pisces.

Condition 2 occurs - Moon/Libra separates from Saturn in 12th and applies within a degree to Mercury/Aries/6th - ruling the 8th, without doubt an accidental malefic. Mercury is also a significator for the youth, 6th house is the labour classes - Labour party youth.

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Eddy wrote:Like Mark I don?t feel comfortable with astrological delineation so short after this disaster, however one comment I?d like to make is that, although this surely is a mundane event, I think that special emphasis should be laid on the natal chart of the assassin.
It's a pity we don't have the birth time. I have another birth chart (a serial killer) with whom I would compare this one.

However the 16 June lunar eclipse appears to have some significance. I saw the eclipse and mentioned it, and a possible astrological significance for the regions where it occurred at the horizon, a while ago. Mars and Node were close to the eclipse point. Perhaps he has an angle on the eclipse point or square to it, which would make the connection to the mundane point an perhaps the progressed Sun (in end of Pisces).
I partially agree with you, but not 100%.

First of all solar eclipse is stronger than Moon one. Cardano says in his comment to Ptolemy: "On the other hand the Moon, because she indicates months cannot signify calamities."

Moreover if you cast the chart, the significant Light is the Sun near the Descendant, because it is above the horizon while the Moon is below. So according the usual rule, the effects will be late.

Anyway I agree that this Moon eclipse can activate some points of the last January Solar eclipse and in the natal chart.

In every case the transiting Mars (which was on the SE Ascendant ) opposite the LE Moon is interesting, I should admit :)

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

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Daz Madrigal wrote:
Norwegians are not good at maths.
I guess you were attempting to inject some humour there but in the current climate it seems ill advised. I would ask all members to exercise special sensitivity here considerating the deeply tragic subject of this thread.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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Anders Behring Breivik

Born 13.02.1979, Oslo.
The chart provided is not based on accurate birthdata. But rather than calculate a Sunrise chart, in view of what has been commited, I wanted to examine the chart from the perspective of the Sun on the cusp of the 8th house. We can discuss whether this approach has merit, but at least it is startingpoint.
Image
By placing the Sun on the cusp of the 8th house, Leo is on the ascendant and the Sun becomes the Lord of the 1st house. The Moon becomes ruler of the 12th house, associated with mental conditions, assasinations and also imprisonment (hidden places/hidden enemies), and is conjunct Saturn, lord of the 8th house on the cusp of the 3rd house. Breivik expresses his views in a political manifest. There is the reception between Mercury, lord of the 3rd in the 8th, and Saturn, lord of the 8th in the 3rd house.

The luminaries are in signs of a human figure, but here the combination of Vrigo and Aquarius may reflect a reasoning with lack of empaphy. Mars, Lord of the Midheaven, is combust and joined to the Sun, lord of the ascendant, on the cusp of the 8th house. Mars, lord of the 10th, is square Uranus in violent signs. Uranus is on the cusp of 5th house of children. The entry of transit Uranus into Aries would introduce a period of instability, change and unpredictable action, but the tension is more thoroughly expressed by transit Pluto who is in a tight square with the Midheavan.
http://www.astronor.com

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Margherita wrote:It's a pity we don't have the birth time. I have another birth chart (a serial killer) with whom I would compare this one.
It?s a really difficult subject. The man is not a typical serial killer. The killing was political but no politician was hurt. However many of today?s Norwegian politicians of the social democrats had joined the camps and meetings on the island. Obviously some of the killed youths on the island thus were meant to be future politicians. This makes the massacre much worse, like killing plants before they flower and spread seed.
I partially agree with you, but not 100%. First of all solar eclipse is stronger than Moon one. Cardano says in his comment to Ptolemy: "On the other hand the Moon, because she indicates months cannot signify calamities."
Although I realise the risk of hindsight interpretation with symbolism, it seems that this lunar eclipse could be very relevant in this case. With the 15 June eclipsed Moon on the ascendant, you get two symbols of young age in one time. The recent Mars over the Sun?s position of the Lunar eclipse chart could symbolise the bombs in the political centre of the capital, both as heart?s of a country. And the Mars opposite the Moon position indicating the massacre on the island. But being an eternal doubter I must say that I never could have predicted this.

Perhaps there is a solar eclipse superior to this lunar eclipse. But in that case a solar eclipse might rather indicate the rise of the extreme right and populism. But which one? This is difficult because this has been a very slow process. Where is the beginning? The developments of populism after 9/11? Or earlier, the genocide of Muslims in former Yugoslavia? First Gulf War? The end of the Cold War? Delineating the course of history and cause and effects seems easier to do by observing political developments than by astrology. Mundane astrology is really difficult.

I just remembered another thread about the remarkable 1 June2011 Solar eclipse as a midnight Sun: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6181 In the last post I speculated on events in North Russia near Archangelsk, however I know of nothing having happened there. But the eclipse was on the horizon over the northern part of Norway. The ecliptical point of eclipse (which I use instead of the moment of maximum eclipse) was on 11?02? Gemini. I compared this with Breivik?s birthday chart and found Saturn in Virgo in a close square to the eclipse. But Saturn is not so much of a personal planet. His natal Moon however, was close and adjusting the time to 15:36 (Universal Time) places the Moon on 11?02? Virgo, exact square to that eclipse. Of course this is adjusting an alleged birth-time to an eclipse so I tested some verification with directed angles. With the Astrodienst chart calculators I get MC 29?55? Aries and Asc 21?35? Leo. Directing the angles 128 (4*32 years) clock minutes which roughly corresponds with Ptolemy key of 1? the directed Ascendant reaches 11?18? Virgo, so quite a thing if it was the correct birth time. But how to be sure about this? Furthermore the progressed Sun reaches 26 Pisces and no significant aspect. The last things were square to natal Neptune in 20 Sagittarius and conjunct South Node in 18 Pisces, but this was some 6 and 8 years ago. I read that he has been preparing his 1500 pages work since 9 years so at least we should look for older and long term issues which lead to this. With the end of Leo Ascendant the Descendant is in the Mars, Sun, Mercury stellium, through which Neptune transited the last few years. Primary directed MC in end of Taurus was square to the stellium. I also looked at the 4 January 2011 eclipse, a thread on this: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5875 . This is another eclipse which occurred on the horizon. Your view on the stronger significance of Solar eclipses gets support from these positions, Margherita. It?s position 13?39? Capricorn however is only close to natal Venus at 9 Capricorn. Saturn was in April close to square this point and will be again in August.

I realise that this latter part on the birth time is very speculative, and could be all wrong even though the primary directed Ascendant would nicely fit with that corrected moon in relation to the 1 july eclipse. Perhaps the birth time will be known within a few years.

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Eddy wrote:I realise that this latter part on the birth time is very speculative, and could be all wrong even though the primary directed Ascendant would nicely fit with that corrected moon in relation to the 1 july eclipse.
I realize you wre probably refering to something else, but it you take the chart I proposed above and direct the ascendant according to Solar arc, then the directed ascendant is 10VI32, which is very much in contact with the radix Moon and Saturn, rulers of 12th and 8th..
http://www.astronor.com

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Excuse me! The police arrived at Ut?ya where there was utter chaos. Early estimates of 10 dead did not correctly reflect the gravity of the situation.
My apologies, Andrew, it was a throwaway remark due to being slightly puzzled at such a miscalculation, I think the Norwegian police have been otherwise exemplary in the way they have responded.
Mad Daz's Place, quiet but never boring
http://pinkmelon.proboards82.com/index.cgi

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Andrew Bevan wrote:
Eddy wrote:I realise that this latter part on the birth time is very speculative, and could be all wrong even though the primary directed Ascendant would nicely fit with that corrected moon in relation to the 1 july eclipse.
I realize you wre probably refering to something else, but it you take the chart I proposed above and direct the ascendant according to Solar arc, then the directed ascendant is 10VI32, which is very much in contact with the radix Moon and Saturn, rulers of 12th and 8th..
Thanks for having posted the birthchart, Andrew.

I have the idea this man is a paranoid and I would check a little his chart. I cannot help noticing the Lights with malefics and I would be very interested in seeing how the Moon flows from planet to planet.

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

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Re. the use of Sabians v Fixed Stars.



A DAUGHTER OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION

KEYNOTE: The prestige and conservatism of a long-maintained heritage.

An example of what occurs when the individual chooses a path which totally embodies and glorifies tradition, a path which ends in a GLORIFICATION OF THE PAST.

The will and ability to maintain a social supremacy based on thoroughly established tradition.
___*When positive, the degree is an infectious pride in leadership through which a group is able to act as a unit, and when negative, the ultimate betrayal of selfhood by a false assumption of superiority.[/quote]


I think that says it all really, it neatly encapsulates the socio-cultural and political views held by the perpetrator (Sun). Far too many people take the initial symbolism too literally but in essence it simply describes someone who is a member of a small group espousing old fashioned values...the fact that the Sun is very debilitated astrologically underlines the negative symbolism here.


I simply cannot find that clarity within the fixed stars.
Mad Daz's Place, quiet but never boring
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