skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Timing

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Harlequin



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 99

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:04 pm    Post subject: Timing Reply with quote

The querent asked "When will I move abroad?" 2:01pm, 5th October 2004, Worcester UK. 24 Sagittarius rising.
She's represented by Jupiter and the Moon, "abroad" by Mercury. Jupiter in the ninth house reflects her thinking about moving abroad. There's no aspect between Jupiter and Mercury, but the Moon applies to square Mercury in 9 degrees, 24 minutes. So a move abroad is suggested, but when? The Moon is Strong in its own sign, and the sign is Cardinal suggesting a fast unit of time, but is angular suggesting a slow unit of time, and moving slowly. So mixing fast and slow would suggest a medium time frame unit. Given a reasonable time frame of weeks/months/years, it would seem that 9 and a half months would be a realistic answer to her question. Would anyone care to comment on this reasoning? Smile
H.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ascendant



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 6

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Harlequin wrote:
The Moon is Strong in its own sign, and the sign is Cardinal suggesting a fast unit of time, but is angular suggesting a slow unit of time


As far as I have understood it, and I'm no expert, but I thought angular meant a faster unit of time.

Asc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deb
Administrator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does.

Angular = powerful and immediate
Succedent = intermediate
Cadent = weak or slow to perform
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harlequin



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 99

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ascendant and Deb. Yes, after re-reading Lilly I see that angular = fast, or powerful and immediate. So in answer to the querent's question, she will be moving abroad in 9 and a half weeks! That's unlikely... is there something in the chart I've missed?
H.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jupRx



Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 21

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harlequin wrote:
Thanks Ascendant and Deb. Yes, after re-reading Lilly I see that angular = fast, or powerful and immediate. So in answer to the querent's question, she will be moving abroad in 9 and a half weeks! That's unlikely... is there something in the chart I've missed?
H.


Hmmm... having read John Frawley's article "How to beat time" elsewhere on this site I'm a bit puzzled now.

He says "Of their nature, angular houses equate with fixed signs and so indicate the slowest time unit. Cadent - as might be expected from a house that is literally 'falling' - gives the fastest; succedent the middle."

but later "angular houses of their nature are slow. But a planet in an angular house has a good deal of accidental dignity. Accidental dignity increases the planet's power to act. If that planet wants to act, then, it is well able to do so, and is likely to act quickly. So angular houses are fast." and he goes on that this "inherent (apparent) contradiction is the reason for Lilly giving two apparently contradictory tables."

Huh ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deb
Administrator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a confusing point. One thing to bear in mind is that, in matters of timing, Lilly placed more emphasis upon the sign involved than the angularity of the planet. Many other factors are also involved, such as the speed of, quality and sign of the Moon, all of these for the planets, whether the aspect is interrupted or not, the general nature of the planets involved, (Saturn = slow / Mercury= fast), and so on. However, on p. 267 Lilly writes:

Moveable signs show days | Angles are equivalent to moveable signs
Common signs, weeks or months | Succedent to common signs
Fixed signs, months or years | Cadent to fixed signs

This seems pretty clear and this is how Lilly tends to use angularity/cadency throughout his explanations and judgements; it also conforms to the way it is used generally by other authors.

However, there are a couple of places in Christian Astrology where Lilly contradicts his normal way of using angularity in timing, and appears to view the condition as an indication of a more permanent or long-lasting effect (based on the fact that it is more powerful) than cadency (which is weak and therefore cannot sustain a long lasting influence). This is why Frawley describes angular houses as akin to the fixed signs, which, whilst being admittedly slow in manifestation, are also the signs which endure and withstand the pressure to change. Lilly is presumably drawing from an earlier source that might have explained the reasoning a little more clearly. In essence angularity indicates a strong vitality, will or life force, and that in itself tends to make things happen – which is why Frawley also explains that, despite being capable of demonstrating the enduring power of the fixed signs, mainly we can rely upon angular planets making things happen more quickly.

As Lilly says “use discretion, and consider if it be possible that the matter enquired of may be effected in days, weeks, months; for if it be a business that may require much time, instead of months you may add years”. All things considered, stretching out the time units and then considering the nature of the planets involved, 9 and a half months seems a sensible conclusion.

I haven’t looked at this chart, but if the only indication of the event is the square from the Moon to Mercury, then that might show that the querent’s plans to move abroad will merely meet with difficulty or frustration at the time indicated by the aspect, rather than indicating a time that she actually moves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jupRx



Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 21

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, that does clarify things. And I guess it's probably best to stick to the simple rules while learning anyway even if this means occasionally missing out on the subtleties.

Timing seems to be pretty difficult to get right even for experienced horary astrologers.

jupRx
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
siraxi



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 99
Location: Romania

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Timing Reply with quote

Harlequin wrote:
The querent asked "When will I move abroad?" 2:01pm, 5th October 2004, Worcester UK. 24 Sagittarius rising.

I wonder if she ever got to move abroad since October 2004, when she asked the question.
There is a separating aspect between Jupiter and Mercury, the main significators, also Moon's aspects are mainly squares to the planets from the 9th house, and her last aspect is a conjunction with Saturn.

I would like to know the outcome of this horary question. Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harlequin



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 99

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Siraxi,

Having looked at this chart again after 6 months, I notice that although there is an applying square from Moon to Mercury, the Moon first applies to square Mars. This is an example of Prohibition isn't it? The applying square from Moon to Mercury is "Prohibited" by the Moon first squaring Mars. So the answer to the horary is, no, you wont be going abroad. She didn't go abroad.
H.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated