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painting back?

 
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Tienka Atema



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 97
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:39 am    Post subject: painting back? Reply with quote



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Goodmorning all!
I have a horary about a painting which I do not understand. A friend of mine had a small painting of a monk that needed to be repaired. So she brought it to a shop which she was familiar with: they repaired some jewelry for her in the past, and although she needed to wait for a long time, they were good in repairing. But time went on, and she did not hear from the shopkeeper. Then she heard that the man died and so she contacted the wife and told her about the painting. The wife promised to search for the painting. My friend was a bit worried and that is why she asked: Will I get the painting back?
The querent is signified by a dignified Mars in the 1st house. The painting is well described by Jupiter in Pisces: a monk.
There is a mutual applying trine between Mars and Jupiter, so that looked very promising.
The Moon, overall significator, is peregrine in the 3rd and applying by trine to a dignified Saturn, lord of the 4th, receiving the Moon. I thought that boded well too...
So I thought my friend would get the painting back, but now, almost a year later, she still did not get it back.
Do you think that the fact that the Moon is peregrine, applying to Venus by square after the trine to Saturn, is the reason of this delay? Will she get it back eventually or not?
Hope to hear your thoughts on this one!
regards,
Tienka
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Seiko



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 363
Location: Latvia

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Venus represents the painting.

The Moon peregrine in the 3rd in square with peregrine Venus retrograde in her Detriment and the Moon's Fall.

I would say the answer is NO, she most probably won't get the painting back.
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AquaStella



Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 194

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

The querent is Mars and Venus in the 1st.
The painting is Jupiter rx. lord 2nd and Saturn, lord of the POF.
Mars applies to trine Jupiter, which is rx. (shall return).
Moon applies to trine Saturn.
POF is cnj the 4th cusp of the end of the matter, with Neptune... Confused

There are quite a few indications that the painting will return to the querent.....but when? Confused

All the chart's angles are in fixed signs so things will proceed slowly...
Mars and Moon are in fixed signs, too.

Jupiter is under the earth in the chart and moving towards the Desc, where it will come out into the light again.

Jupiter recently made a station smack on the chart's Desc (Aug 2011) and then became retrograde and went back into darkness, as if it the painting was about to reappear, but changed its mind in the last minute.

Still, transit Jupiter will turn direct , and will move towards the desc once more , where it will conjoin Venus and trine Mars around March 15, 2012, while the transit Sun conjoin the horary Jupiter.

I guess the painting will return to its owner by that time, or a few days sooner or later. Maybe it will be retrieved by the police or authorities.

Then again, I could be wrong, as always Sick
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Tienka Atema



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 97
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,
Thank you for your replies! It will be interesting to see if the painting will return in 2012, Aquastella, I really hope so!
Seiko: I assume you take Venus as the significator of the painting because of the natural rulership of Venus? I think Jupiter is more descriptive, because the painting shows a monk Smile and Jupiter rules the 2nd house of possessions.
regards,
Tienka
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Seiko



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 363
Location: Latvia

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the painting was of a red Ferrari, then it wouldn't be represented by Jupiter in Pisces?

Venus has a very prominent role in the chart. That's one. Venus is a natural significator of the art objects. That's two. Venus is the Dispositor of Jupiter, L2. That's three.

The question is somehow crooked with Scorpio rising and Venus Rx in Scorpio. Either your Querent is not telling the whole story or that other lady is trying to pull something here. I'm not accusing anyone, I don't care but you have to admit it's a bit weird. Didn't your querent have some kind of receipt when she gave the painting to the store? It's like, hey, you're restoring jewelry, here, take my jewelry and no, I don't need any papers, I trust you. I mean, even if you trust the shop, you need some kind of papers in case they damage your article.

Secondly, the lady promised to look for it and what? She's still looking for it? Is it impossible to find a painting in a presumably small shop or house? She did not call back or anything? The Querent did not go to the shop or to the that lady's house, just left the whole thing hanging?

I'm not trying to be a detective, or paranoid, but something does not add up. If you have the receipt, go to the police, for heaven's sake. Or try to come into contact with the lady, she didn't run away, did she?
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Tienka Atema



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 97
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Seiko,
My friend, who asked the question will respond to your questions, that seems easier!
regrads,
Tienka
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Johanna Brasser



Joined: 29 Sep 2011
Posts: 2
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iím the querent and I can answer some of your questions.
The whole story is a bit long and complicated and thatís why Tienka dindnít write about "all" the details.
I know the juweller, the lady who owns a this shop, for more than 10 years. She has repaired some jewels for me over the years, bought some as well and we a couple of times a year we had coffee together. We have a friendly releationship. She restored my (old) jewels very well so it was never a problem that it took a while (caused by personal and medical problems) before they were ready. I trust her fully (still do) and I always got a receipt for the jewels I left with her.
Her husband was a painter, specialized in restoring paintings, so one day I took this painting (miniature seized 15 by 12 cm) to her shop and asked if her husband could take a look at it to see if he could restore the painting.
It never crossed my mind to ask a receipt.
I phoned her husband a couple of weeks later and he said that he would do it but that it could take a while because he had some large contracts he was working on.
Then, some months later, she (the jeweller) was in hospital and because I was not in a hurry I didnít mind that he didnít have the time to restore my painting. Personal circumstances are more important than a painting in my opinion.
When I met her again, many months later, she said that they had divorced and that they were not on speaking terms. I phoned him, had him on the phone for an hour, he was very depressed, didn't work at that moment. He would phone me as soon as he had restored my painting.
Then I heard in the summer of 2010 by another friend who knows this family very well that he committed suicide. Some time later I went to the shop to see his ex wife and she advised me to contact her daughter who was the only heir. She, the ex wife, couldn't touch his belongings. Thatís what I did. Talked to the daughter and she said that she would search for it. "Search" because the painting is so tiny. She would call me back as soon as she had found it in his painting studio/house.
It was around that time that I asked the question. I saw the mutual applying trine between Mars and Jupiter, the moon making a trine to Saturn, L4, end of the affair and was sure of a positive outcome. Of course de moon is making a square first to venus retrograde, the daughter, L7, but that didnít worry me because I thought this reflected very well the state the daughter was in after having lost her father in such a way.
By January 2011 the daughter still didnít call me back and I tried to contact her without any result. She didn't call me back
By February 2011 I went so see her mother and she explained that her daughter was seriously depressed, couldnít handle life at all and that the house/studio of her father was still in the state as it was when he died.
These peoples are no crooks but for sure emotionally unstable, the daughter as well as the ex wife.
Because I know they are trustworthy, that a serious burn out can take a while and I'm not living around the corner anymore, there hasn't been any contact since February 2011.

Hope this answers all of your questions. Regards, Johanna
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Seiko



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 363
Location: Latvia

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great. It started out as a simple question. Now we have this. It is very sad, it is indeed a tragedy.

But from the astrological standpoint, it becomes complicated. L8 combust in the 12th most probably represents the suicide. His belongings ( also L8 ) are now in posession of his daughter (L11 and L12). Mercury is combust (not seen) in the 12th house (not seen). L11 is combust in the 12th house which probably shows her mental state.

The Moon peregrine in the house of communications (the 3rd), sitting right on the antiscion of Mars that rules the ASC and has dignities in the 3rd. So a lack of communication or an ineffective communication will continue.

Venus is the Dispositor of both the father's and the daughter's belongings (L8 in the 2nd house from the 11th). So, again, we come the full circle back to Venus.

Since now we are looking at a complex chart, it is hard to give any certain judgement but I still think you have only a slim chance of getting it back. Mercury is combust and continues to be combust till the end of the sign. The Moon peregrine in partile conjunction with the antiscion of Mars in the cadent house of communication. Saturn is your only friend here. Since he represents older people, parents etc and has dignities in the 11th house, apparently it's the lady you are friends with. So maybe she's the only hope here.

But in the chart after some communication with Saturn, you get Venus retrograde in her Detriment that disposes your painting.

Even if one of those aspects (the Moon to her Dispositor, Saturn, or the Moon to Venus) works, which would be a small miracle, but anyways, then you should get your painting in either one year's time, i.e., right about now, or, if not, in two years time. Or never. Here, how's that for a consultation? But it's free so you can't complain.

Maybe someone else will join in to share their views.

Anyway, good luck with your painting.
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Johanna Brasser



Joined: 29 Sep 2011
Posts: 2
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Seiko and AquaStella for your deliniation.
When there is any news I will let you know. Regards, Johanna
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