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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Time of Birth? Barack Obama
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1635
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:39 pm    Post subject: Time of Birth? Barack Obama Reply with quote

I have the date of Birth for Barack Obama as 4 August 1961 Honnalulu Hawaii, but I dont have the time, anyone? he actually has some good presidential prospects astrologically speaking even not knowing the exact time.

Granny
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Several readers requested more info on Barack Obama, and this now becomes possible since we have a few reported birth times. After discarding the more unlikely proposed times, it now appears that the 1:06 pm time relayed by astrologer Frances McEvoy looks best, as explained below*. So Obama's birth data is: August 4, 1961; 1:06 pm; Honolulu, HI, AHST.

You should see is a speculative time chart

http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0007601.HTM
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Tom
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've given some thought to what I'm about to write, mostly becuse I wasn't sure whether or not to write it, but here goes: While it is surely possible that the 1:06 pm birth time is correct, the supporting reasons given for the birth time on Star IQ are, frankly, idiotic.

To wit:


Quote:
*This data is rated DD, and must remain speculative until confirmed by his birth certificate. However, the 1:06 pm time fits a prominent politician, with the Sun near the MC. Also, Uranus and Pluto in the Tenth House describe Obama's revolutionary, transformative role as a leader.


Barak Obama has been a member of the US Senate for two years. I'm not real clear on exactly how "revolutionary and transformative" a man can be in such a ridiculously short period, even if the author was a bit more clear on what those words mean in this case. The statement above is just a value judgment - the opinon of the author with the weakest of astrology to back it up - a daily transit.

Quote:
Obama's October 2002 speech against the pending Iraq war was a revolutionary stance at the time, and was delivered as transiting Uranus opposed natal Uranus, which substantiates the 1:06 pm time.


In October 2002, Obama was a member of the Illinois State Senate. The Illinois State Senate, like the other 49 State Senates (Nebraska at one time had a unicameral legislature and perhaps still does, so there may be only 48 other state senates) have nothing whatsoever to do with foreign policy. As the author noted, the Iraq war had yet to begin and would not begin for about 6 more months. Whatever speech this was it went unnoticed. He did give a well received speech at a Democrat Convention, but it was hardly revolutionary. In fact it was so vanilla that any Republican could have given it as well. It did launch his career and made him somewhat well known as a "rising star" in the Democrat Party. But probably there were no favorable aspects from that date to this chart so the astrologer dug up a speech given during a long transit and really stretched a point.

The tenth house in this chart is huge. Given that Virgo and Leo are both signs of long ascension, a planet, by diurnal motion could take three or more hours to traverse this space. How Uranus opposite Uranus in the 10th substantiates a precise birth time is quite beyond me. If Uranus was exactly or near exactly on the MC - IC axis I could see this, but Uranus is six degrees from the MC. Using the rule of thumb of one degree of diurnal motion every four minutes of clock time, Urnaus was nearly a half hour past the MC at 1:06. Way too much to pinpoint a birth time. If we bend over backwards we might be able to accept this as supporting testimony to other more precise examples, but they do not occur.

Furthermore the opposition is the second one. Uranus is retrograde. His first Uranus - Uranus opposition took place a year earlier.


Quote:
Also, Obama's parents divorced when he was two, and the 1:06 pm chart shows the Pluto-Chiron polarity in the Fourth and Tenth Houses (with two degrees orb).


This opposition was in force for months conservatively. Pluto is in Virgo and Chiron is in Pisces there is about a 1 degree 30 minute separation. Both objects move painfully slow. Pluto is 43 degrees from the MC. Yes, using Placidus cusps Pluto is in the 10th house, but this opposition was in the 10th house for hours every day for months - perhaps a year with wide enough orbs. Did everyone born in the time period undego a divorce of his or her parents by age 2? Pluto is not even in the same sign as the MC and of course Chiron is not in the same sign as the IC. Calling this a stretch is too kind.


Quote:
Obama was married on Oct 18, 1992, as his progressed Midheaven was trine Ceres in the Seventh House of partners. Transiting Vesta was exactly on his Ascendant, which is significant since his natal Vesta is in the 7th. In addition, transiting Pluto was conjunct his Ascendant and transiting Chiron conjunct his Midheaven.


The progressed midheaven can take decades to move through a house. This statement is supposed to validate a precise time within 60 seconds not a precise decade. The fact that it aspected a couple of asteroids is not surprising given that there are so many asteroids it could possibly hit. It is interesting that Pluto and Chiron in square now result in marriage but Pluto and Chiron in opposition resulted in divorce. In modern astrology the square is more difficult than the opposition, which is hard to reconcile with these statements

Notice what is missing. There is only one mention of a personal planet, the Sun near the MC in this entire "justification." Where is Venus in all this marriage and divorce, or Mars for that matter? If this is all there is to the 1:06 birth time, then I'd suggest it be discarded until there is some sensible rectification at least or preferably a birth certificate.

Tom
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Tigr50



Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 15
Location: Roswell NM

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. The chart that the 1:06 time generates is not a nice one for running the US of A or even a life. Let's see if we can get the real time.
Tigr50
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Dave of Maryland



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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Location: Bel Air, MD

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:17 am    Post subject: Obama birth time Reply with quote

Obama's birth time came up on the mundane side of Skyscript, here:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2212

I made some remarks, but the important thing is that as nobody knows, there's no reason not to jump in & have a go.

On the day in question the Moon changed signs, from Taurus to Gemini. As it happens, the moon moved to Gemini just two minutes before the proposed 1:06 pm time.

Any time you're doing a rectification & you've got that sort of choice, the first thing you do is sit for a long time, thinking, which one it might be. Everything else in the rectification will hinge on that decision.

To me, Obama is a warm & personable kind of guy. To me, that's Taurus. Not nervous & flighty, which would be Gemini.

I set up his chart at 10:25 am, which produced a chart remarkably similar to Bill Clinton's. Both men are Leos & both are collegial. They enjoy being in front of crowds. To me, this is 11th house.

Looking at my version of his natal, and looking at his declaration for the presidency, I really don't think he'll be in the race come this fall, but if he is, then at some point we'll get the birth data & then we'll know.

Any chance we can persuade Astrodienst to put numbers on their house cusps?
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Granny:
I have the time he announced his running for president. 2/10/2007
10:13 am CST. Springfield, IL.

kali
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Tom
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
To me, Obama is a warm & personable kind of guy. To me, that's Taurus. Not nervous & flighty, which would be Gemini.


Yes, but look at his physical appearance. Obama's appearance is what I would call "Mercurial," and that suggests Gemini. He's tall, lanky, well spoken all Gemini traits and these are the types of things that cannot be hidden. People can project warmth without being warm. I think we have to be careful with public demeanor when looking at celebriities particularly polticians, who try, understandably, to always put their best foot forward when people rae watching. Hillary doesn't throw lamps in public.

Arbitrarily I cast a chart for 1:06 AM and 1 Gemini rises, THe Moon is exalted at 23 Taurus, in the 12th trine Saturn Rx in Capricorn. Saturn rules the MC, and the Moon is on Algol. His celebrity will be short lived. But like I said, this was arbitrary and untested.

Tom
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Dave of Maryland



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 154
Location: Bel Air, MD

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Tom,

Quote:
Yes, but look at his physical appearance. Obama's appearance is what I would call "Mercurial," and that suggests Gemini. He's tall, lanky, well spoken all Gemini traits and these are the types of things that cannot be hidden.


Well-spoken is Earth, not Air. I have Gemini rising, Mercury trining it from Aquarius. I have volume. The only reason I have polish is the Saturn in Libra that trines them both. In this, I am often defeated by Mars that squares Mercury & inconjuncts the ascendant. But enough about me.

On pg. 74 of Judith Hill's Astrological Body Types (Borderland, 1997), is this, on ascendants:

Quote:
The Venusian stands medium to tall in height. The body contours are smooth & graceful with little muscular or boney prominence. The limbs are smooth & graceful. The weight ranges from willow slenderness to plump, as the type is greatly addicted to sugar, although obesity is rare. Poise & balance are Venusian hallmarks.


Additionally, on pg. 85 you will find a sketch of a slender male Libran, and on the next page, a sketch of a slender female Libran. Drawing isn't Judith's strong suit, astrological observation is. You're right in that Librans can take other forms, but they can also take Obama's.

Quote:
People can project warmth without being warm.


By definition, warmth has to have some astrological source. In Carter's Encyclopaedia of Psychological Astrology, see the entry under Diplomacy (pg. 71) where he cites the necessity of a strong Venus.

Quote:
I think we have to be careful with public demeanor when looking at celebriities particularly politicians, who try, understandably, to always put their best foot forward when people are watching.


Yes, indeed. This is why I always look at the guy's Mercury. Many, many politicians have debilitated Mercurys. They have to. They tell lies for a living. I can tell a damn good lie, one you will believe 100%, but I can't keep them up & the process can make me ill. By contrast, I once spent ten years with a Mercury/Neptune square. She was not only a compulsive liar, she had alternate realities for each & every one of her friends, which was the inevitable result of keeping individual lies going for decades. I could usually tell when she was lying, and when they started to come in my direction, I knew it was over.

Tony Blair has the Mercury/Neptune square aspect. When he was a fresh face people wanted to believe the "world is a better place" nonsense that he spouted. He's still spouting it, but we can see from the accumulated weight of office that he is merely deluded. In my experience, the Mercury/Neptune square deludes. Mercury/Neptune oppositions deceive.

We might define a politician, astrologically, as someone with a warm Earth (or perhaps water) moon that connects with other people, along with a Mercury that lets him get what he really wants without bothering his conscience too much. I went looking for such a definition in Hill, Donath & Doane but found nothing. A fire moon, by contrast, would be a rabble-rouser. Good for brief spurts, but likely to burn out. I can't see that an air moon would connect at all, and I have a daughter with a moon in Gemini. There is no grounding with air.

Obama has a debilitated Mercury in square to Neptune & opposing Jupiter. These are warning signals.

Dave
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Gunhilde



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't tall and lanky suggest a Saturnine body type?

I see Gemini rising as being slender, perhaps a little bit wiry. My husband has Gemini rising (along with several other Geminian things); he's well-built, of average height (5'10), and perpetually slender. The only place he seems to gain weight is in his face, and I put this down to having a Cancer moon (e.g. 'moon face' Laughing ).
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Dave of Maryland



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Archergirl,

Quote:
Wouldn't tall and lanky suggest a Saturnine body type?


Saturnians are typically small, dark & boney.

Quote:
I see Gemini rising as being slender, perhaps a little bit wiry.


That's true. The wiry part can be Virgo or Aries. Does your husband have long narrow fingers & wave his arms about when he speaks?

Quote:
My husband has Gemini rising (along with several other Geminian things); he's well-built, of average height (5'10), and perpetually slender. The only place he seems to gain weight is in his face, and I put this down to having a Cancer moon (e.g. 'moon face' Laughing ).


My round face is said to be from my full moon, but I've had that forever.

Dave
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Labalance



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 122

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave,

I notice a discrepancy in what you said:
By contrast, I once spent ten years with a Mercury/Neptune square. She was not only a compulsive liar, she had alternate realities for each & every one of her friends,
Tony Blair has the Mercury/Neptune square aspect
In my experience, the Mercury/Neptune square deludes. Mercury/Neptune oppositions deceive.

Are you saying your ex was a deceiver? But if she and Tony have the same aspect wouldn't that mean he was a deceiver as well? But you say the square is deluded not deceiving.

Funny, I only think of Mercury in earth as good singers not speakers. I'll have to look at more charts to see if this holds up. My husband is a double Gemini and he is perceived as a thoughtful speaker, and is not at all flighty. I'm a double Libra and do think I am much more excitable in my speech. We both have that square from Mercury to Mars however.
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Dave of Maryland



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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Labalance,

Quote:
Are you saying your ex was a deceiver? But if she and Tony have the same aspect wouldn't that mean he was a deceiver as well? But you say the square is deluded not deceiving.


I don't want to tarr all Mercury - Neptune hard aspects. It could be that many people who have these aspects live honest, wholesome lives. But to an outsider, when the square gets messed up, or when the opposition gets messed up, both lie. And I'm sick of lies, the way that many are sick of drunks.

The opposition is better, in my view. They lie because they are lied to. Tell them the truth, and they'll be on tippytoes to tell the truth back. It's a moral thing with them. There are rules, and they know what they are.

The square is confusion. The square is delusion. Tony Blair honestly believes he is doing his best. He honestly believes he is telling the truth. He is hurt that you no longer trust him. He doesn't know what he did wrong. Yet he keeps on doing it. He might have got away with it, except that he ran into a Mercury/Pluto bloke bent on his own private agenda. That's one of the risks that squares take, that they will be suckered & then be too deluded (or enthralled) to claw their way out of it.

You want to shake people like this, but it does no good. You end up throwing them away, and that hurts. Because in many ways, they are outstanding people. They have many other gifts. Their lies, their inability to see the world clearly, eventually cost them everything.

Dave
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Labalance



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I just add that it's your square between Mercury and Mars that can't stand the lies? At least that's what I've noticed in myself and others.
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Dave of Maryland



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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can I just add that it's your square between Mercury and Mars that can't stand the lies? At least that's what I've noticed in myself and others.


Good observation. Mercury/Mars square (from Aquarius to Scorpio, two strong placements) can make one rather demanding.

Dave
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SGFoxe



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Obama Reply with quote

Well, he's certainly the most engaging of actors on the candidate trail. Like they said of John Lindsay millions of years ago when he was campaigning for the NYC mayoral -- "He's fresh when all the rest are tired." It may prove that he's Gore's stalking horse functionally neutralizing Hillary.

Whatever the time Barack was born -- I'll go with the 1:06 pm, trusting to McEvoy's sound political instincts -- in any event, he was conceived November 1960, hypothetically the first Tuesday after the first Monday, November 8th -- the Ju/Sa conjunction that killed JFK coming to exactitude when he was emwombed -- and at birth, both retrograde, out of sign w/in a 5 degree orb.

His secondary lunar progessions should bring these energies front burner (dare I whisper Tecumseh's Curse) ... some 5 & 10 months down the line.

Sonja
of the 48th Ward
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