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'Being Lovers' look to the 5th house, commitment the 7th?

 
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amf12



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 13

Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:00 am    Post subject: 'Being Lovers' look to the 5th house, commitment the 7th? Reply with quote

I cast a chart for for being lovers...I am assuming I look at the 5th house cusp ruler for the quesited. Is this correct?

What I see is that the querent is ruled by the Moon (cancer asc.) and the quesited is ruled by Venus (libra on 5th house cusp). The Moon is at 6 degrees Scorpio in the 5th (placement in 5th emphasizes importance to querent?) it forms an applying sextile to Venus in the 4th at 13 degrees Virgo. The sun, co-ruler of quesited, is also in the 5th.

Oct. 14, 2004 10:28pm PST Eugene, OR (US)

This looks positive...I'm also wondering what the significance of the Sun in Libra (at home in the 5th?) has....

thanks~
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Tom
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In traditional astrology, at least the way I was taught, the 7th is a person, and the 5th is an activity. So if Cancer rises, then The Moon is the querent and Saturn is the quesited.

This is also true in questions like: will my wife find out about my lover? One of them is the 7th, and one is something else. Reception usually shows the way. It is surprising to see, in questions like this, the spouse is often signified by Saturn, as John Frawley says, spoiling all the fun.

Tom
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Pete



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further to Tom's reply, and again in reference to John Frawley, who says that in questions of this type, the 7th is the person and the 5th is what you do with the person. So, 7th for the lover and 5th for the romance and what-not Wink
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Pete
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amf12



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so Saturn, ruler of the 7th, is where I should look for the person? So that would be at 26 degrees of Cancer in the first house, with the moon's next aspect being a trine to Saturn. Does this sound right? Then for the action of being lovers I would look to Venus. Is this correct?

thanks!
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Pete



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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
so Saturn, ruler of the 7th, is where I should look for the person? So that would be at 26 degrees of Cancer in the first house, with the moon's next aspect being a trine to Saturn. Does this sound right? Then for the action of being lovers I would look to Venus. Is this correct?


While it's true that the Moon's final aspect before it leaves Scorpio is the trine to Saturn, at the time the question was asked the Moon wasn't yet in orb of the trine, so that particular "action" hasn't yet begun to manifest, so it might be said that it is still only "potential" - not certainty. The Moon's next aspect is a square to Neptune in the 8th, followed by the sextile to Venus in the 3rd. The Moon on the 5th cusp shows the querent's emotional investment in a love-affair, but the Moon is very weak in it's fall, so it lacks the strength to bring things to a satisfactory fruition.

As for the "action of being lovers"; if I understand you correctly, then 'being lovers' isn't so much an 'action', imo - it simply describes the nature of the relationship, and so therefore, is a 7th house matter. Romance, love-making, pleasure, fun - iow, all the things you *do* with a lover - are concerns of the 5th house.
Hope this helps...

==
Pete
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Pocket Dragon



Joined: 08 Oct 2004
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Moon is at 6 degrees Scorpio, then it is in the via combusta. I was led to believe that a chart could not be read if the Moon was in the via combusta. Or is there an exception to the rule?
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Ficina
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As for the "action of being lovers"; if I understand you correctly, then 'being lovers' isn't so much an 'action', imo - it simply describes the nature of the relationship


Depends what is meant by "being lovers". If it's a coy euphemism for "having sex", then that would be 5th house (presumably involving a certain amount of "action"....ahem) Leery
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Pete



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Depends what is meant by "being lovers". If it's a coy euphemism for "having sex", then that would be 5th house (presumably involving a certain amount of "action"....ahem) Leery


I see your point, yes. Maybe I should have said "the lover is the 7th house; making love to the lover is the 5th house."
Yes, I should have kept it nice and simple Smile

===
Pete
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amf12



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok-I'm confused now with what Pocket Dragon says about the moon being in the via combusta. Is this correct and the chart should not be read?

I'm still unclear on which ruler I should be looking at for the quesited...Venus or Saturn, if the moon is okay.

Confused
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Pete



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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ok-I'm confused now with what Pocket Dragon says about the moon being in the via combusta. Is this correct and the chart should not be read?


The Via Combusta is an area of the zodiac between the 15th degree of Libra and the 15th degree of Scorpio and is one of the so-called "Considerations Before Judgement". Translated into English the Via Combusta means "Burning Way" and traditionally was once considered to be a malefic place, chiefly because this area contains the degrees of the Sun and Moon's fall, and also because Libra is the exaltation of Saturn, while Scorpio is the dignity of Mars.
Bearing the above in mind, one can see how the Moon's placement there might sound a cautionary note. In my experience the "Burning Way" merely describes the condition of the Moon; it seems to add a note of desperation, perhaps compulsion or obsession to the emotional needs that the Moon symbolises. This by and of itself can unbalance the querent's feelings with regard to the question and may lead to emotional burn-out of one kind or another.
It most certainly does not imply, imo, that the chart cannot be read. On the contrary, if other factors in the chart point towards radicality then the astrologer can proceed to judgement, taking the Via Combust condition of the Moon into "consideration".

Quote:
"I'm still unclear on which ruler I should be looking at for the quesited...Venus or Saturn, if the moon is okay."


In this chart Saturn is the primary significator of the quesited, it being the ruler of the 7th house.
Lilly tells us on page 302/3 of C.A:

"Give unto the querent the lord of the ascendant, the Moon, and the planet from whom the Moon last separated; unto the party enquired [sic], the lord of the 7th, and the planet to whom the Moon doth apply. And if the querent be a man, then add the Sun, but if a woman, add Venus..."

So Venus can be looked upon as a secondary significator for you, not the quesited.

Hope this helps clear up the confusion! Smile
==

Pete
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Pete



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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies. Earlier, I wrote:

Quote:
The Moon's next aspect is a square to Neptune in the 8th, followed by the sextile to Venus in the 3rd.


Of course, I meant "...followed by the sextile to Venus in the 4th"
Sorry about that! Shocked Smile
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Pete
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amf12



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, the message from this chart could be that there is 'potential' to be lovers but it is uncertain. With the square to Neptune there may be some illusion or deception to contend with... then with the sextile to Venus the querent may come out feeling better about the situation? Am I on the right track?
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