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Who took the bed & placed it in front of a neighbor door

 
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 764
Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:36 am    Post subject: Who took the bed & placed it in front of a neighbor door Reply with quote

Hi All---

This question has been asked by a cousin who lives in a village. I would type the complete question.

Who took the bed of my brother and placed it in front of the door of a neighbor?

Time of Receiving of Question: 09:38 pm
Place of Receiving of Question: Rawalpindi, Pakistan
Ascendant: Aquarius 23 degrees and 09 minutes.
House system used: Regiomontanus.

Back Ground Info

According to my Cousin's version. Some one took the spare bed of his brother and placed it in front of the door of a neighbor. The matter was so mysterious as who had taken pains to take a bed out of a locked home and place it in front of a neighbor door. He cross questioned many suspects but is unable of find anything. The matter is embarrassing and mysterious. Perhaps more mysterious and reasons for such action by any person remains obscure. So, here i proceed with this horary. Let’s see.

Analysis/Interpretation

A word of warning: Saturn is right at the angle of DSC 7th house and makes it unfortunate plus South Node is in 7th house. Bad for the horary astrologer's judgment i.e. Me. Venus is also at DSC but i desperately want to analyze an Agatha Christi type of question. But warning is there.
-The angles are mixed. 1-7 angles are fixed (movable) while 4-10 angles are Mutable (Common). This indicates that the issue had been dragging without result and would end into confusion and twists and turns.

-Moon is in Pisces and First house. She is applying to her dispositor i.e. Jupiter who happens to be in 10th Radical house. Moon separates from POF and is in aspect with Mercury Rx. Moon and Mercury aspect is almost perfect. Moon is working.

-POF of this horary is in Cancer i.e. fruitful sign and his dispositor is Moon and is in aspect with Moon. POF is in 5th house. POF can be termed as the Fortune or Crux of a horary. Its position in Radical 5th is something to be noted. POF of this horary is WHO has done it?
-------------

-Querent (My cousin) is represented by First house and its ruler. I don’t use Outers (Uranus, Neptune or Pluto) unless and until they are on an angle or are stationed. Here Neptune Rx is smack on ascendant. Telling us about the mind of Querent. He is totally confused and bewildered. His Lord i.e. Saturn is right smack on 7th house. That means that he has transferred his confusion to me and would be affecting my judgment.
If I believe that the verdict of my cousin is true. That he is innocent and so is his brother I may proceed in my judgment.

The thief or the culprit is signified by the following signs or indications.

-Any peregrine planet in the angle.
-Lord of the turned 7th house.

Saturn, Venus Moon and Mars are peregrine planets in the angles. Since, Saturn is L1 and represents Querent, Venus represents L3 (significator of his brother) I drop them. Mars is also Lord of 9th house (turned 7th house) and Moon would be used as significator of the person who has done the mischief. So, my selection for the Significators for the culprit are, Moon and Mars.

-Querent brother is represented by 3H and L3 is Venus right on 7th angle conjunct Saturn. So, both of them are the cause of my confusion or impending danger of wrong judgment.

-The bed (the thing placed deliberately by the culprit) is represented by 2nd house from the 3rd house. L4 is Mercury Rx. Who is in aspect with Moon. The bed has been recovered.

If the Culprit is not one from the household, his house is from the Querent’s house, North North West. (Sun in Water sign and in 5H) and the door of his house is in North East side of his house (Moon in Pisces and 1H). There are two doors (Moon in Pisces). The main door is mended with Iron or is fully made of iron. (Moon in aspect with Mars) and opens to a main road used by many people (Moon increasing in light). The opening of the door is near to some ditch or a pit (Jupiter Rx in radical 10H)

He shall be found but may be he confesses himself (Moon in aspect with Mercury Rx). He would be suspected but not openly known (Sun in sextile to Mars and in trine to Moon)

The mischief has been done by a single person (Mars in Taurus) and is male (Dispositor of Moon i.e Jupiter. Moon to Mercury then to Mars and Mars is in 12th from the turned ascendant). He is a person formally known or a familiar (L3 Mercury is in aspect with Sun and Moon and Moon and Moon and Mars in terms of Venus which is L3 or turned IH). He is envious and false person (Mars is in almost first but basically 12th from 3H turned IH). His Proportion is little bit on a fleshy side. (Mars oriental) He is tall (Moon in Pisces) and his upper part of body thick and strong (Mars in Taurus and in first station). He is Hand some in shape (Sun aspecting Mars and Moon) and his body termperature is hot and his skin is moist (Moon aspecting Mars). He walks in slow with well measured steps (Mars and Moon have south latitude). He is mature, (Mars significator and full Moon).He is financially ok. (Mars is in Venus term and Venus is in Sun house)

God knows what a confusing sort of analysis is this. Since, Saturn is on Dsc i.e 7H, I must have made some mistake or overlooked some main thing.

Any help/suggesstion would be appreciated. Confused
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Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/


Last edited by Morpheus on Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gunhilde



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 800

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gryffindor,

What an intriguing question!

I am wondering whether the 'thief' ought to just be the radix 7th house instead of the turned 7th? The reason being, your cousin, the querent, has asked the question about the thief. I'm not 100% sure about this: but it's just my thought that it doesn't matter 'who' is asking about the thief, e.g. it doesn't have to be a turned chart, since the thief is a 'mystery person' to the cousin as well as to his brother...

Does that make the chart make more sense?

Best,
GH Smile
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 764
Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gunhilde--

To be honet, first of all i thought on similar lines. But whoever hears about the incident becomes curious. I used 3rd house as the ascendant because the brother of cousin asked him to call me and pose a question and it was his property which was used i.e bed. One more thing i noted. At the time he called i was taking shower, L7 in cancer. The mystery person would remain mystery, I fear.

Perhaps Saturn at 7th angle and South Node is telling me that the question is beyond my power to analyse. crying
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Gunhilde



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 800

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gryffindor,

Quote:
I used 3rd house as the ascendant because the brother of cousin asked him to call me and pose a question and it was his property which was used i.e bed.


Yes, that is sound logic. I think you're right about the 'Saturn in 7th' thing as well: this is one tricky question for a horary. I can't think of anything I'd add. I find your physical descriptions of the thief very interesting, and will be even more interested to find out if the thief does indeed confess to the deed, as you suggest he might do.

Why someone would move someone's bed is *truly* baffling... Shocked

GH Smile
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Deb
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gryf

You give the ascendant as 23.09 Capricorn but I think you mean Aquarius – you must mean Aquarius if Neptune is ‘smack on the ascendant’. I had some problems trying to replicate your chart because of this. It would have been a big help if you had included the time zone, and a date is always useful.

Can I clarify the data and a couple of other points? The data I am working from is:

Date: 4th July 2007 ?
Time: 09:38 pm (time zone -5hrs ?)
Place: Rawalpindi, Pakistan
Ascendant: Aquarius 23 degrees and 09 minutes ?
House system used: Regiomontanus.

You say that the chart indicates that your cousin and brother are innocent. Since your cousin asked the question it never occurred to me that he or his brother might have done the deed, but perhaps I am being naive. Since you raise the point, actually I don’t see how the chart clears them from the possibility of involvement. Apart from what you see in the chart, would you say that the prospect of either your cousin or his brother being involved is worth considering?

I ask because if there is a possibility that the culprit came from the household, then I don’t think Saturn should be so quickly ignored simply because it rules the 1st house. There are quite a few indications of possible deceit in this question, and ‘the brother’ looks very much central to the situation, with his significator being the planet that naturally signifies beds, placed on the 7th cusp of the perpetrator, and with Mars, the natural significator of mischief, on his own house cusp. At this point I have not decided whether this describes the brother as the perpetrator of the attack or the victim of it, but if it is possible that he did it, then you should probably take note of the 7th house afflictions and keep your judgement to yourself. It might bring you nothing but trouble to get involved in a complicated family situation.

You say you take Mars as a significator for the culprit because it is a peregrine planet in an angle, but unless I have the wrong chart, Mars is not in an angle, it is on the 3rd house cusp. The rest of the chart I am looking at matches up to the description you give of it, but I am a bit unsure because of the confusion over the data.

Either way Mars is going to be a significator for the actual attack. This either ties the event to the brother of the querent or the neighbour of the querent. If your cousin lives with his brother then this could of course be describing the bed-clogged door of the neighbour described in the question.

Before going too far in creating a description of the unknown attacker, I would spend more time working on how the significators describe the parties that are known to be involved. Is Venus accurately describing the brother, if not who else might it be? It seems pretty clear that Venus is not to be trusted (peregrine, conjunct Saturn, opposite Neptune, on the destructive angle). I am curious why the Moon is immediately applying to the trine of Mercury, which is debilitated in (and rules) the 5th house, with the 7th house ruler in the 5th house too. Might some enraged lover of the brother be involved (Mars ruling the brother’s turned 7th and afflicting his cusp). I can’t help thinking that there is something very significant about the fact that the object involved is a bed, with Venus so heavily afflicted and being the last personal planet that the Moon aspected (by opposition, still in orb, so significant for what has happened prior to the question).

An interesting chart. I hope this gets resolved so that we can look back at it at a later time.
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb--

Thanks. Yes, its mine mistake the ascendant is Aquarius 23 degrees and 09 minutes and i am editing the first post to reflect it.

I had asked my cousin and his brother that if they were involved in any way and just wanted to tease me. They ruled out the possibility and and have given their word of honour that they have no intention to tease but to resolve a problem, which has baffled them.

Quote:
You say you take Mars as a significator for the culprit because it is a peregrine planet in an angle, but unless I have the wrong chart, Mars is not in an angle, it is on the 3rd house cusp. The rest of the chart I am looking at matches up to the description you give of it, but I am a bit unsure because of the confusion over the data.



One more mistake i have committed and i confess. Peregrine planets on angles are Saturn and Venus (and i ruled them out on their word of honour). Mars, though peregrine is very close to 3H cusp and rules turned 7th (Radical 9th). The brother of my cousin is a Sun Sign Libra and his facial structure is close to a venusian. though he has an admixture of Saturn in him. My Cousin has Leo ascendant and Saturn is transiting in his first house (as it has been happeining in my own chart, I am Leo Asc too).

My cousin and his brother are married. My first suspect was the Wife of the brother of cousin. I have not yet emailed my analysis to my cousin. But i checked my tendency for a baised analysis (as they happen to be my first cousins), and instead developed profile by the help of CA (pp 319 to 366).


Quote:
If your cousin lives with his brother then this could of course be describing the bed-clogged door of the neighbour described in the question.


They both are married and live in adjacent rooms with their wives. Both rooms are separate from the rest of the house with a *kind* of wall. You can say that it is a house inside a large family house.

Quote:
Might some enraged lover of the brother be involved (Mars ruling the brother’s turned 7th and afflicting his cusp).


Lets say his wife, because he is married.

You see Deb! that basically this is a blame game horary. But the persons involved in this chart, my cousin and his brother are mature persons. any way i would tell the information in a diplomatic way. To avoid family problems. Thats why instead of pointing my sword at any particular person, i have just given hints about the culprit.

Instead of further quoting from your post, i would give an answer to some of your hints. You have hinted at some thing. My cousin was interested in neighbour's girl in romantic sort of way, years ago. That might explain, Venus Saturn conjunction and Venus-Saturn--Neptune opposition. And that tells that some one has done this intentionally to bring bad name to my cousin or to his brother.

I would definitely say that it is an interesting chart. I was taking shower at the time of query. Would it explain, Sun in cancer? Laughing

I would post the updates.

And thanks.
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Morpheus

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Deb
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like we’re both thinking along the same lines Smile I don’t like charts that have Neptune angular, because it often reflects a situation where it is hard to get a clear view of reality. But in this chart the Moon is angular and in orb of its application to Mercury and Mars, (suggesting that this situation hasn’t fully played out yet) and then to the square of Jupiter, elevated on the MC, and the trine to the Sun. So I think there is more to come to light.
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 764
Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb—

An Update. I called my Cousin and before I could tell him any thing. He told me about his non-astrological speculations regarding who the culprit might be. He *thinks* (supported by valid reasons) that the wife of his brother is the main culprit.

About the suspect. She is tall about 40 years old (the brother of my cousin married a woman 6 years more than his age). She is lean. She is fair and pretty. About her gait. I forgot. She is out of favor of my cousin’s brother now a days and she has restored to charms and talismans on her husband. Placing a bed in front of neighbor door could be the part of that charm. She is envious. She was a *very far* distant relative before her marriage to my cousin’s brother. My cousin thinks that at the night the event might have happened. He was out of home so was his brother. So, may be she had ample time to do the trick.

About the bed? I don’t know how to put it as my poor English is a main hindrance in describing it. The bed is a very small one and is used for sleeping of kids of about 6 or 7 years. It is not a master bed and is repeatedly move here and there according to convenience and requirements. Deb! It may answer that probably the bed was best represented by the Mercury Rx.

Mercury----Kids

Rx—Showing that it could be and *is* moved from one place to another.

Rx---It was not intention of the suspect to steal it but to use it as a charm etc. It might also explain the almost perfect applying aspect of Moon with mercury. The aspect is trine.

I am a thinking that Moon trine Mercury Rx might show the Charms etc. I have another horary I might update to show my findings or a tiny bit research.

Following are the aspects of the Moon---

Moon Separating Aspects

Moon Trine POF--- 1 degrees and 25 minutes.

Moon Opposition Venus---08 degrees and 48 minutes. (Change of sign)—It might explain the period in which she is not in favor of her husband and it involves the change of sign which might explain the change of strategy?

Moon Applying Aspects

Moon Trine Mercury Rx and out of combustion and slowing down—0 degrees and 20 minutes

Moon Sextile Mars (detriment)---03 degrees and 46 minutes.

Moon conjunct North Node—05 degrees and 09 minutes.

Moon Square Jupiter Rx---08 degrees and 18 minutes

Moon Trine Sun ----09 degrees 03 minutes.

I would again re-visit my findings. God Please help me.

Quote:
But in this chart the Moon is angular and in orb of its application to Mercury and Mars, (suggesting that this situation hasn’t fully played out yet) and then to the square of Jupiter, elevated on the MC, and the trine to the Sun. So I think there is more to come to light.


This might be making it hard for me to read this horary. Plus 7H afflicted by Saturn and South Node. Confused

From my original post:-

Quote:
If the Culprit is not one from the household, his house is from the Querent’s house, North North West. (Sun in Water sign and in 5H) and the door of his house is in North East side of his house (Moon in Pisces and 1H). There are two doors (Moon in Pisces). The main door is mended with Iron or is fully made of iron. (Moon in aspect with Mars) and opens to a main road used by many people (Moon increasing in light). The opening of the door is near to some ditch or a pit (Jupiter Rx in radical 10H)



Last night when i was discussing with my Cousin, i noted a strange thing. The description of the house of the culprit might be fitting the Cousin home. As i remarked, their house is within a Large family house. Their house is North North West, if we enter from the main entrance of the large home. There is a well (water) in front of their door. However, main door of the large house is made of iron. etc etc
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Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/


Last edited by Morpheus on Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As i have said last night to my cousin that i would be giving this link to him to read and make his own mind

A NOTE TO COUSIN

The thread might be longer, but Deb (Deborah Houlding) has got it right. My analysis got mixed when i analysed that the Culprit might be Male and have fleshy body. I know now where my mistake lies. Rest is Ok.

There is no need probing the matter further. As, you know that it might invite trouble, scandal and infamy. The Neptune at the ascendant actually describes your situation, which indicates confusion and deceit (Neptune opposes Venus). Dont share this with other Cousins. and not my name. This kind of horary is basically a blame game horary. Laughing
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Deb
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gryffindor

The problem with astrological analysis is that it can never offer proof, and that is why traditional astrologers were keen to include warnings about the danger of identifying thieves or culprits astrologically, especially in situations where emotions might run high. Thought it cannot offer ‘proof’, it can offer insight into a situation, or draw attention to certain things which are loaded with significance, and it can trigger certain revelations. When we look at this chart in comparison to what is now known as being suspected for other reasons, it does seems to come to life.

I think there is more to this chart than a ‘blame game’ situation. I hope that won’t be the case because the chart seems intent on revealing a distressed emotional theme. If the suspicions are correct – astrologically they are supported by this chart – then the woman involved in the situation is shown to be deeply frustrated. The Moon’s applying trine to Mercury shows the need for emotional communication. Mercury is debilitated so that won’t be easy, and with the sextile to Mars it is likely to bring out a lot of lingering anger and resentment. But the aspect shows that the opportunity presents itself, and since the Moon is applying to the Sun (7th-ruler), by a trine (the most healing aspect), something positive could come out of this situation if the effort is made to resolve the problem with the culprit rather than simply discover who it was and then attach blame.

As I said earlier, I believe the brother is integral to the focus of this chart. He may not have moved the bed physically, but I suspect that in ‘moving his bed’ metaphorically, (or at least mentally), he has played his part in triggering the emotional disturbance that led to the act. There is a lot of 5th house emphasis in the chart, and that has to do with love, romance, and sexual attraction. When a woman who is known for being pretty turns 40 and falls out of favour, she probably has a lot of insecurities to deal with. The act itself was as symbolic as this chart, and it was obviously some kind of cry for attention. I’m not suggesting that she and the brother should be reconciled, but rather that she maybe needs some help in finding a more positive way to express herself. Then again I know that our cultures can be very different, so I am just adding these thoughts for you to think about.

Thanks very much for taking the trouble to provide the update and feedback.
Deb
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb—

I like your statement that astrology provides insight but not proof. It rpovides stimulus to already present brain but she can not be the brain itself. I know of one horary astrologer who practises in Karachi. He flatly refuses to answer any theft horary for similar sort of reasons you gave in your post.

I went to village on 6th of July to attend the marriage of my (another) cousin and happened to live at the joint family home. I have seen the scene of mis-chief and by employing common sense/hints from this horary and observing changes in character and other subtleties, it is evident that the Wife of the brother of cousin is the culprit.

A further feed back.

-She gave birth to a baby girl on 12th of March, 2007.

-Her sister accused her (un justly--as per her verdict) somewhat 9 months ago, of mis-handling the jewelry and she (the wife of the brother of cousin) gave away her own personal jewelry to indemnify the loss.

I have not explored their domestic bliss or otherwise as it seemed that even diplomatically questioning her husband might be inappropriate.

She has changed behavior with the rest of the family. Previously she was not in talking terms with any body. Now, she is trying to make amends. (Moon in Pisces—few degrees—changed strategy

7th house i.e. of astrologer was afflicted in this horary and it gives way to a separate discussion which I am posting in separate thread.

Thanks for the help. Smile
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Morpheus

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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If It seemed 5 years ago that the Culprit could not be clearly identified, It has been now...

The Bed was taken by Querent's Brother's Wife Smile
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