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Skyscript Astrology Forum

US Presidential Contest 2012-Obama vs Romney
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Brennan has just produced a round up of all the web based astrological predictions on the US Presidential election. This list is considerably longer than anything else you might have seen so far.

Moreover, the piece sets out in detail which methodology was used by each of these astrologers.

From this survey it appears about two thirds of the astrologers favour an Obama win. Its a very useful piece as it should allow us to check which methods prove more successful. Although, I do think the ambiguity over Romney's exact birth time could throw a few sincere predictions off.

http://politicalastrologyblog.com/2012/10/29/astrologers-predict-the-2012-election-roundup/#comment-56209

Mark
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Astrological planets invisible to normal human sight Reply with quote

lihin wrote:
The 'Pluto-happiness' of much late 20th century modern astrology may thus soon diminish. How many more dwarf planets will be discovered? Sedna, with an orbital period of about 11,000 years, may be one. How many astrological symbols can an astrologer's mind coherently work with? Perhaps the decision of most Indian and some traditional Western astrologers to deliberately limit their list of planets to those visible to unaided human sight may prove neither antiquated nor absurd, especially in view of the fact that astrological qualities attributed to the new planets have mostly been stripped from the old ones.



Can't say I've seen the planet of Collective Survival asscociated with happiness before. This emotional state used to be linked to Venus, and still is by some of us.

Your ideas are peculiar, perhaps hang with some of the Platonic Psych crowd who only really bother with the Sun, Moon and if you are lucky or unlucky the Ascendent, but methinks another thread is in order here.
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoidsoft wrote:
[quote="MarkNader is blamed for the 2000 election of Bush, but the blame really lies with the millions of Americans who did not vote their convictions and were presuaded to be "practical". Voting is not a place to ask the question of what everyone else would do, but whether the choice is "right" and "best for the country". Too bad that most Americans do not have that level of conviction.


Even worse that we have astrologers making predictions about the outocme but few say it is a disaster, ironically, for the (mainstream) astrological community if Romney wins? Has Mundane astrology become a playground in 2012 for anarcho decadentalists?
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nixx wrote:
Quote:
Can't say I've seen the planet of Collective Survival asscociated with happiness before. This emotional state used to be linked to Venus, and still is by some of us.

Your ideas are peculiar, perhaps hang with some of the Platonic Psych crowd who only really bother with the Sun, Moon and if you are lucky or unlucky the Ascendent, but methinks another thread is in order here.


I decided to let Lihin's comments stand unchallenged even if they are totally out of place on the mundane forum. I was kind of hoping the references to outer planets could be ignored.

As I have stated more than once recently, this is not the traditional or the philosophy forum. On the mundane forum its really irrelevant whether people use outers or they dont. I honestly, dont care. What people principally want to see here on this thread is astrological analysis of the election or links to others work that provide this. Its not a place to criticise techniques we dont adopt ourselves. If you think you have something better to offer then please offer us all that . As the old Quaker saying goes 'better to light one candle than curse the darkness'.

In that context check my last post on Chris Brennan's new article rounding up the astrological predictions on the election.

Mark
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nixx wrote:
Quote:
Even worse that we have astrologers making predictions about the outocme but few say it is a disaster, ironically, for the (mainstream) astrological community if Romney wins?


Funny, I was going to say something similar. But of course they still have the benefit of the doubt. However, if Romney wins its going to be major humble pie eating for a lot of big names. The entire UAC panel will have to lie low for a while. Laughing

Personally, I am with the minority that think Romney might just win this by a whisker. I find Nina Gryphon's reading of the Aries chart quite idiosyncratic. She has turned a lot of traditional ideas on their head to find an Obama win. Although I would never reach a conclusion on just an Aries ingress. We have to look at the Libra ingress too and that is much tougher to decide. I dont see it as clear cut for Obama as Peter Stockinger has suggested. It shows just how close this is. I might stick up my delineation of these charts just for a bit variety.

One of the problems with just ingress charts for US elections which is often ignored is that there are not just Presidential elections going on but Congressional ones too. At this election the Republicans are likely to retain control of the House of Representatives and the Democrats may well retain overall control of the Senate. So rather than seeing a contradictory chart showing the Presidential candidates being close it could show one party taking the Presidency and another taking control of the Congress. The US political system makes it very difficult for one party run both the Presidency and both houses of Congress. So if Obama is elected again he will still face a hostile Republican led House of Representatives. If Romney is elected he may find many of his ideas blocked by a Democrat controlled Senate.

Mark
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

Funny, I was going to say something similar. But of course they still have the benefit of the doubt. However, if Romney wins it’s going to be major humble pie eating for a lot of big names. The entire UAC panel will have to lie low for a while. Laughing

I think you may have misunderstood. If you subscribe to the view Western Astrology is rooted in Platonic and/or Neo-Platonic metaphysics, which in simple terms is astrology is a means to enable people to do 'good', or be wiser, more conscious, etc then you wouldn't support someone who will make the world a worse place. (Assuming Romney being President would result in this eventuality. Although to my surprise I got involved in USA politics a few years ago, and with this issue the Republicans appeared to be more interested in helping folks than the Democrats. In the UK we are brought up with the idea Republicans are all morons like Bush, Bush and Reagan, maybe not?).

One of the panel was Christian if memory serves. If you read ''Under one Sky'' you might be bewildered as to why he is still involved in astrology, it was a shocker!! Which suggests to me not a lot of monitoring is going on, or a lot of tolerance, or people don’t read many books, or he may have had a bad day, who knows? Axel Harvey’s old mag, what’s it called? might really destroy anyone’s interest in mundane astrology, probably some US Pres stuff in it.

Well done to Brennan for giving a synopsis of the reasons. The Hellenistic stuff I find more intriguing. One correction here, having got to know Darkstar his approach is perhaps even more idiosyncratic than Weidner’s. It is not that connected to Western astrology. Louis looks as though he has spent months on this, so I hope he is not too disappointed. The worse scenario for these astrologers, according to Brennan, is a clear cut winner and no problems with the process, then they all look stupid.
Gobsmacked
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nixx,

Sounds like you have started the post mortem analysis already. I will hang until next week if you dont mind.

Mark
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lihin



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 470
Location: Mount Kailash

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Heretical Reply with quote

Good morning,

Merely 'peculiar', why not bluntly heretical concerning some of the pet notions of modern 20th century astrology, genethliacal and mundane? Many if not most in any field classify themselves and those with similar opinions as 'mainstream', others as 'fringe'.

Seriiously, how many astrological variables can even a professional astrologer with academic credentials absorb, digest and integrate into meaningful, accurate delineations and predictions? Many do not even attempt the latter, restricting their activities to hindsight, saying prediction is impossible or nearly so anyway.

By way of contrast, here is a quotation from Claudius Prolemy's Tetrabiblos, referring to natal but equally pertinent to mundane astrology:

Quote:
"The consideration of the length of life takes the leading place amongst inquiries about events following birth, for, as the ancient says, it is ridiculous to attach particular predictions to one who, by the constitution of the years of his life, will never attain at all to the time of the predicted event."


Similarly, it would scarcely make sense under comparable circumstances to predict in detail the future of a new incorporated business start-up that probably will not survive infancy.

Best regards,

lihin
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Last edited by lihin on Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Lihin/Nixx,

Lihin I appreciate you were irked by the personalised comment of Nixx. Fair enough. However, most of your previous post that Nixx commented on was a broadside vs modern astrology. It really came out of nowhere as noone else had been discussing such issues here. It therefore appears very ideologically driven.

I am glad that you have found an approach to astrology you are comfortable with. However, please focus on your own technique here rather than criticising modern astrology. If traditional is better as you keep asserting please show us by the quality of your mundane astrology analysis not by stating what you perceive as superiority arguments.

Apart from the traditional forum all the other forums on Skyscript respect astrological diversity and no one approach is favoured over another here.

I am now giving both you and Nixx formal notice that I will not have this forum turned into a debating chamber on the merits of traditional astrology vs contemporary philosophy. Your two positions are no doubt based on fundamentally different assumptions anyway. If neither of you have anything on topic to say on this thread then please desist from making any further posts until you do. So in short take your fight somewhere else guys. We have the traditional and philosophy forums for a reason. From here on I will excercising my right as moderator to delete or amend any further posts of this character without warning.

Mark
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started this PM in about 1986, after a burst of Brennanesque enthusiasm in the preceding years.

Something that may interest you is a brief chat I had with Charles Harvey a few years later. I came out of it focused on the need to know the Mundane territory in the way, some of us, feel the need to know the person, and people!, before commenting on a chart. So simply put not living in the USA and if you do not keeping informed of the sociology will negatively and critically impact on the capacity to think about 2013-2017 realistically.

Pat raises a good question about how even if the astrologers choice wins then if contradictory schemas have arrived at this where do we start. A day one Astro conundrum but nevertheless worth reminding folks. Thus as with Natal astrology the veracity of one’s preferred schemata comes down to consistency and the dreaded stats.

(PS - Sorry to correct Lihin's Frawleyesque stereotyping here,......... this Schmidt idea of Ptolemy as Western Astro’s No 1 Heretic is probably a thread worth starting, or restarting one day, a pivotal pickle on the face of it.............)
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nixx,

As I said earlier lets wait until the race is over until we judge things or start to philosophise on the state of mundane astrology.

Apparently, based on the electoral college seat allocation Obama has a 70% chance of winning. In the face of that I have plumped for a Romney win. Confused I find my political judgement clashing with my astrological assessment here. Its a real head vs gut conflict. Still, I have been wrong before and in this instance, despite the short ego boost a correct prediction might bring, I would prefer to be wrong here too.

Mark
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Nixx



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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to be more old school with this and was taught the Sun was the Reps and the Moon the Dems- the CAN/AQ Sibly reactionary/progressive (or sort of , NB Obama is a Christian let's not forget). Anyway I knocked up the progressed Sibly and transits to it for next Tuesday. Moon/Mars in Libra in the 2nd ' let's sort out the economy but be fair in the process'- re Health Bill maybe?), and Romney's Sun conjunct (bit wide) prog Sibly Sun in 7th, make of that what you will.

But the in yer face one is Saturn on the day is 3'12 SCO as is the progressed Sib Saturn 3'12 SCO - 3rd house. So remembering your Sat= Democrats is there a narrative here re ''responsible communication'' and here Obama seems a winner as he can talk. Leo just about rising as well, he's a Lion. Then again Saturn is often depressing................
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nixx wrote:
Quote:
I used to be more old school with this and was taught the Sun was the Reps and the Moon the Dems- the CAN/AQ Sibly reactionary/progressive (or sort of , NB Obama is a Christian let's not forget). Anyway I knocked up the progressed Sibly and transits to it for next Tuesday. Moon/Mars in Libra in the 2nd ' let's sort out the economy but be fair in the process'- re Health Bill maybe?), and Romney's Sun conjunct (bit wide) prog Sibly Sun in 7th, make of that what you will.

But the in yer face one is Saturn on the day is 3'12 SCO as is the progressed Sib Saturn 3'12 SCO - 3rd house. So remembering your Sat= Democrats is there a narrative here re ''responsible communication'' and here Obama seems a winner as he can talk. Leo just about rising as well, he's a Lion. Then again Saturn is often depressing................


That almost looked like a prediction Nixx! I had though you were too post modern for such literalism these days?

When you state Sun=Rep and Moon=Dem is 'old school' what is your source for that? Which astrologers proposed that?

You have reminded me I was going to post up some new research I have done on the charts for the two parties. Just hasn't been the time. Still I doubt this two party duopoly is going anywhere soon so I will return to that when the election dust settles. Such charts are not definitive anyway as a party can win the Congressional elections and lose the Presidency or vice versa.

Mark
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Nixx



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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Postmodern?, I hope you are not suggesting my astrology is non-predictive. If so I will need to write a cogent paragraph as to why I may be Skyscript’s most predictive, and traditional, contributor. People are patterns and all that malarkey.

If I bump into the Moon / Sun source or sources again I’ll try and remember to let you know. It’s been annoying me all day, but these twitches pass............


A good point about looking at national or other charts only in relationship to presidential elections. Reinforcing the idea of knowing a lot about how specific countries operate. In London during the Livingstone era there was a sense of existing in a progressive environment even though Thatcherites were imagined to be the only movers and shakers in the eyes of those not on the ground.

Looking at Brennan's round up again I see few mentions of the Sibly, that’s what I would call ''post modern'', no respect today’s Astros have for their elders bumbling. Poor old Ebenezer all that occultist endeavour for nowt. What is really happening here, are the yanks no longer, as a body politic, (none of this 'psychic' nonsense, neuroscience has pretty much destroyed any residual ether) enthusiastic free thinkers operating within a familial teleology?
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Mark for Steven Birchfield & Goran Koncar presidential election charts. Music to my ears.
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