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A question on profession
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irisalbus



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 99

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: A question on profession Reply with quote

I have always been interested in astrology and now was thinking about the possibility of becoming a professional astrologer, so the questions were: ----- Should I learn astrology investing much money in courses in order to become a professional astrologer?
-- Would/will this be a job that would/will make me earn money, enough to be financially indipendent?

As far as I can understand, the answer is very negative, unless it is NOT the 10th House Lord (retrograde and in exile) that should be taken as the significator of the profession....

What do you think?

The chart was drawn at 21:07 on the 5th November 2012, in Alghero (Italy).
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

irisalbus,

Disregarding important considerations like term, face, etc., you have Venus trining Jupiter as Lord of the 10th, And Yes, Rx tells you of a troubled time if in that career with Jupiter in such a hard way, but that Venus trine will be over taken by the Moon.

Clinton Garrett Soule
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 380
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupiter has an escape - it is in mutual reception with Mercury, natural significator of astrologers. Moon is applying to a trine with Mercury.

But, what does this mean?

Here is an aphorism: Any horary question which starts with, "Should I....?" is better answered using the natal chart.

I assume Clinton is taking Venus as the ruler of the 11th, the second from the 10th and so the benefit/reward/wages from the 10th house career. Is that right? If it is, isn't this concept that the turned 2nd is a "benefit from" a particular house more for natal charts, rather than the "resources of" a particular house, which is the horary view?


Geoffrey
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoffrey wrote:
Jupiter has an escape - it is in mutual reception with Mercury, natural significator of astrologers. Moon is applying to a trine with Mercury.

But this trine with Merkury is prohibited by the square with Saturn, Lord of 7, 8 and 9 without reception.


Geoffrey wrote:
I assume Clinton is taking Venus as the ruler of the 11th, the second from the 10th and so the benefit/reward/wages from the 10th house career. Is that right? If it is, isn't this concept that the turned 2nd is a "benefit from" a particular house more for natal charts, rather than the "resources of" a particular house, which is the horary view?

Lilly for example allots the 10th to the profit of voyages in horaries.

Johannes


Last edited by johannes susato on Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clinton Soule wrote:
Disregarding important considerations like term, face, etc., you have Venus trining Jupiter as Lord of the 10th, And Yes, Rx tells you of a troubled time if in that career with Jupiter in such a hard way, but that Venus trine will be over taken by the Moon.

But before that the Moon comes to Saturn and Mercury.

Johannes
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irisalbus



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 99

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for answering.

Geoffrey wrote:
Jupiter has an escape - it is in mutual reception with Mercury, natural significator of astrologers. Moon is applying to a trine with Mercury.
....
I assume Clinton is taking Venus as the ruler of the 11th, the second from the 10th and so the benefit/reward/wages from the 10th house career. Is that right? If it is, isn't this concept that the turned 2nd is a "benefit from" a particular house more for natal charts, rather than the "resources of" a particular house, which is the horary view?

Geoffrey


I have thought of Venus as significator of the income of the 10th house and its trine with Jupiter as "promising", but even though this way of thinking was right, could any good come frome retrograde, exile Jupiter, what's more in the 12th house (even though leaving it backwards, in this moment)?
Cadent house and mutable sign give not much possibility of action/fulfilment anyway, is that right?
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 380
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johannes susato wrote:

But this trine with Merkury is prohibited by the square with Saturn, Lord of 7, 8 and 9 without reception.


Quite so, thankyou Johannes.


Quote:

Lilly for example allots the 10th to the profit of voyages in horaries.


Hmm, this is a tricky matter.

"Profit or Gain" to the querent is generally a 2nd house matter (page 51) and the profit from a particular ship is given to the 2nd house (page 161)

On page 422, in a section concerning the success of a voyage, Lilly states that the substance of the voyage is the 2nd from the 9th, which is the 10th. Is that the same as profit from the voyage which goes to the querent? I would suggest that the former is a step removed from the latter.

This is similar to the 8th being the "portion of" the wife, which could be her dowry to which the querent would have direct access, or her inheritance to which the querent might have access. The fact that a particular house has resources does not automatically mean that those resources are directly available to the querent.

If the 9th house is the astrological education asked about in this case, I would suggest that the 10th house is substance of the 9th relevant to the querent, which is the quality of the course. The querent thus benefits via the quality of the course, and we see the final economic benefit to the querent, if any, in the 2nd.

Geoffrey
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

irisalbus wrote:
Cadent house and mutable sign give not much possibility of action/fulfilment anyway, is that right?

You are right and JU is Lord 6 on the cusp of the 12th, for good measure.
But the main problem in my opinion is that the Moon, signifying you, is in peregrination and not connected with Lord 10, profession, at this time.

Furthermore the connection between you and the astrology, signified by Saturn (Lord 9, and peregrine as the Moon), is - indicated by the square Mond-Saturn without mutual reception - just not so developed as you want it to be and thus this question is still "too early"?

Johannes


Last edited by johannes susato on Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoffrey, it is always a pleasure to have concrete quotations! Very Happy

Geoffrey wrote:
"Profit or Gain" to the querent is generally a 2nd house matter (page 51) and the profit from a particular ship is given to the 2nd house (page 161)
As to the ship profit is given to house 2 because the ship is the ascendant.

Geoffrey wrote:
On page 422, in a section concerning the success of a voyage, Lilly states that the substance of the voyage is the 2nd from the 9th, which is the 10th. Is that the same as profit from the voyage which goes to the querent? I would suggest that the former is a step removed from the latter.
If the ship is yours the profit of the voyage is yours usually.

Geoffrey wrote:
This is similar to the 8th being the "portion of" the wife, which could be her dowry to which the querent would have direct access, or her inheritance to which the querent might have access. The fact that a particular house has resources does not automatically mean that those resources are directly available to the querent.
Above all there must be a connection between lord 7 and/or Lord 8 AND the querent (ascendant) and/or Lord 2. And there were special social conventions as to the fortune of the wife.

Geoffrey wrote:
If the 9th house is the astrological education asked about in this case, I would suggest that the 10th house is substance of the 9th relevant to the querent, which is the quality of the course. The querent thus benefits via the quality of the course, and we see the final economic benefit to the querent, if any, in the 2nd.
Food to think of - just now I think, you are right, but perhaps it depends on the concrete question.

Kind regards

Johannes
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 380
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johannes susato wrote:
As to the ship profit is given to house 2 because the ship is the ascendant.


Quite right Johannes, but I thought I would throw that in anyway Wink

Geoffrey
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irisalbus



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 99

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoffrey wrote:
Jupiter has an escape - it is in mutual reception with Mercury, natural significator of astrologers.


But they have no aspect between them so, yet again, no possibility of action (I am trying to follow John Frawley's instructions).

Quote:
Moon is applying to a trine with Mercury.


Apart from the square with Saturn, here significator of the studies (among other things as it is Lord of the 7th and 8th houses as well), that precedes the trine with the Moon, Mercury is the Lord of the 4th and 12th houses (thus dispositor of Jupiter and Venus). Should I try to interpret it in this context?
(Plus, Mercury is in exile as well as Jupiter :-( )


Quote:
I assume Clinton is taking Venus as the ruler of the 11th, the second from the 10th and so the benefit/reward/wages from the 10th house career. Is that right? If it is, isn't this concept that the turned 2nd is a "benefit from" a particular house more for natal charts, rather than the "resources of" a particular house, which is the horary view?


Frawley, writing about horary questions, says specifically that the 11th taken as 2nd from the 10th is the money someone earns from one's career/job.


Geoffrey[/quote]
Quote:
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irisalbus



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 99

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reassuming:

Significator of me, the querent: the Moon, peregrin and waning, in the 1st house but not in the same sign of the cusp ( disposited by the Sun).
Lord of 9th house, significator of astrological studies: Saturn, peregrine, under the rays of the Sun but in halb and oriental, on the cusp of the 5th house (and completely disposited by Mars).
Lord of 10th house, significator of the carrier/job: Jupiter, retrograde and in exile, on the cusp of the 12th house (disposited by Mercury).
Lord of the 11th house, significator of money coming from career/job: Venus, in domicile and in the 4th house (but not in the same sign of the cusp).
Eventually, lord of 2nd house, significator of my money: the Sun, in decanate, in the 5th house (disposited by Mars).

Moon is in applying square with Saturn which could mean that I can complete the studies with difficulty or slowly, so much so because of the peregrine condition of both planets.
Jupiter is in an applying trine with Venus, so the career and the money could come together somehow, if only Jupiter was in a condition of being able to act.... And even so, neither of them connect to the Moon anyway, so apparently this career and this money is not coming to me.
Do you agree with this conclusion?

For the sake of curiosity, should anything be done/investigated about the figure/meaning of Mars, Lord of the 5th house and thus dispositor of Saturn (in all 5 cases of dignity) and the Sun; and that of Mercury, Lord of the 4th and 12th and thus dispositor of Venus and Jupiter, aspecting Venus and in mutual reception with Jupiter, and the only one aspecting the Moon?
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello irisalbus!

irisalbus wrote:
Moon is in applying square with Saturn which could mean that I can complete the studies with difficulty or slowly, so much so because of the peregrine condition of both planets.
Jupiter is in an applying trine with Venus, so the career and the money could come together somehow, if only Jupiter was in a condition of being able to act.... And even so, neither of them connect to the Moon anyway, so apparently this career and this money is not coming to me.
Do you agree with this conclusion?

Before your question above you had asked the following question:
irisalbus wrote:
Cadent house and mutable sign give not much possibility of action/fulfilment anyway, is that right?


I don't see any cause to alter my answer to your question given already above and so I repeat it:

Johannes susato wrote:
You are right and JU is Lord 6 on the cusp of the 12th, for good measure.
But the main problem in my opinion is that the Moon, signifying you, is in peregrination and not connected with Lord 10, profession, at this time.

Furthermore the connection between you and the astrology, signified by Saturn (Lord 9, and peregrine as the Moon), is - indicated by the square Mond-Saturn without mutual reception - just not so developed as you want it to be and thus this question is still "too early"?


Johannes
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irisalbus



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 99

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess you mean that is enough information to judge the question without further ado Very Happy Thanks
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh no, not at all, lirisalbus! There is no ado. Sorry if this impression is the result of my text! Very Happy

My point was that it it is a little curious to give an answer and see this answer quasi repeated as a new question, but without any referce to the just given answer as if this answer was not given at all.

I think this to be a misunderstanding between us.

It is your question and you have a certain right to see this question resolved. When you have more questions then you really should ask. And when there are such about the answers then you should ask - referring to these answers.

Johannes
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