skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
The Life & Work of Vettius Valens
by Deborah Houlding
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Reading for multiple querents from the same chart
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 696
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reading for multiple querents from the same chart Reply with quote

Hello all, I wonder if you can help me with a working dilemma?

I work for a psychic phone line, reading horary charts in real time, one-to-one on the phone. It's stressful at times but rewarding and a fantastic learning environment. Some readings are amazing (the connection with the client is very strong) and sometimes I worry that I have missed something important.

The company has the option of providing email readings and I think that I may prefer this. I can take more time to judge the chart without worrying about the client being charged by the minute while I deliberate. I can look things up and ponder over my judgment, let it brew as it were, without having to make a snap decision. I would have 24 hours to provide the reading.

So, do I;

1. Log in once a day and collect the (hopefully multiple) questions and cast what is, essentially, one chart. There may be a few minutes difference while I assimilate the question, but unless I am working across an ascendant sign change (or planetary hour), I don't think it will affect the chart that much.

2. Show more due diligence and collect each question separately at a different time of day.

3. Use the time that the querent sent the question (not so satisfactory I think)

4. Avoid times when I am aware of strictures against judgment such moon in via combusta (like now!)

5. Organise my readings in a different way that I haven't thought of?

Has anyone else had experience of this type of working challenge?
What did you do and would you care to offer me any advice?

Thank you very much. All input much appreciated.
Best wishes
Susannah
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dastars



Joined: 17 May 2012
Posts: 53

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Susannah,

I recommend you develop a system around your option #2.

I don't see any merit in #4. Just because the Moon is in Via combust it does not mean that every person in the world is feeling bad. Having said that, it is a good idea to check your own state before interpreting a chart, with or without Via Combusta, or Saturn in the 7th, etc...

Best of luck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 764
Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know of a system (read in a book) which tells how to answer clients who are turning up for reading one by one but the Chart is almost same...

Raheem ul Wuktee Zaicha By Dr. Abdul Raheem (P.53)
Would write in short words the method...

First Person....
The Ascendant

Second Person...
The Sign in Which Moon is would be the ascendant

Third Person...
The Sign in Which Sun is would be the ascendant

Fourth Person...
The Sign in Which Mercury is would be the ascendant
........
.......
.......
_________________
Regards

Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Susannah,

opening your e-mail account is as if you come in and and see and greet your waiting clients.
Then you would let the first in to your consulting room and understanding the querents question you would take the time and compute the chart. After the judgment and consultation you would invite the next client in and so continue with your clients, one after the other.

As you would not ask your clients altogether for their questions, so it seems adequate not to open the income e-mails altogether, but one after the other - after having respectively judged the foregoing.

Technically there is the possibility that your are informed by a ring just an e-mail is coming in. This is perhaps still better than the obove discribed procedure.

In my opinion both methods would agree with Lilly's thoughts as to letters (CA, p. 166, 167).

Johannes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paul
Administrator


Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1551

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it was me, this is what I would do.

I would open my emails and read the first one. Once I understand the first one I would cast a chart for it using my time and location and write them my notes on answering it. Once I've finished this and categorised it whatever way I need to so I can refer to it later, I will then move onto the next email and do the same.

There should be a few minutes at least between each one. But only cast the chart once you understand what's going on. Not just after you read it. You may need to email back for more details or you may need to decide it's too complex just now and you'll read it again after lunch or something.

I think this is basically the same thing as Johannes is saying if I understand him right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Paul you understand me quite right. Very Happy

Very interesting your focus on when the next question should be accepted. I think this should be done more individualistically than my proposal (to judge and answer the foregoing question completely first) and even than yours was.

If there is during judging the first question a complicated technically problem or the ring (my technical proposal from above) of a second question by e-mail, why not open it, understand it, cast the chart and even judge it, or continue, before judging this second, the judgement of the first question?

This is probably more a question of the astrologer's termperament than a dogma.

Johannes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Reading for multiple querents from the same chart Reply with quote

PallasAthene wrote:
Hello all, I wonder if you can help me with a working dilemma?
So, do I;

1. Log in once a day and collect the (hopefully multiple) questions and cast what is, essentially, one chart. There may be a few minutes difference while I assimilate the question, but unless I am working across an ascendant sign change (or planetary hour), I don't think it will affect the chart that much.
Does not seem to be adequate for questions of several individuals at all.

PallasAthene wrote:
2. Show more due diligence and collect each question separately at a different time of day.
This is the choice! See the texts above.

PallasAthene wrote:
3. Use the time that the querent sent the question (not so satisfactory I think)
Me too.

PallasAthene wrote:
4. Avoid times when I am aware of strictures against judgment such moon in via combusta (like now!)
This is a little as if you corrected chance.

PallasAthene wrote:
5. Organise my readings in a different way that I haven't thought of?
Has anyone else had experience of this type of working challenge?
What did you do and would you care to offer me any advice?
Let the e-mail account give you a notice, by a tinkle, for example. So you could read each question quasi at its arriving and at the time the querent 'chose'.

Johannes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Saturngirl



Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 200
Location: England

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Hi Susannah,
Whichever choice you make,what a fantastic opportunity for you to use your skills in this Art. Good luck to you! Thumbs up
SG

_________________
Enjoy what you learn,as it keeps the mind youthful!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 696
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your input.

Horatio, I find your suggestion very interesting. Thank you very much. I googled the book, but can't find it.
What degree would the "new" AC take? The same as the original AC I suppose?

Paul and Johannes and dastars... Yes, it follows that each question should have a unique time, not least out of respect to the individual querent and their question. But as a practical consideration, it takes me about an hour to judge a chart and write it out. (usually, one to one, voice readings are half an hour, sometimes an hour, sometimes less). And I will actually get less money for a written reading than for a voice reading. So, I need a practical way to read the right chart and manage my time to make it worth my while actually taking on this work.

Thank you saturngirl, yes it's been great experience for the last couple of years. Thank you for your good wishes. As always, the hardest thing is to get feedback. I do have regular clients who update. I also have clients who just want to talk and don't understand about only asking once! It's a learning curve on both sides sometimes!

I think I am just going to have to experiment.
For practical reasons, I will need to collect the questions at most twice a day. One of the issues with the phone readings, is that I have to be at home by the phone just waiting for calls, which may or may not come. So I suppose I was thinking that the email readings might be more efficient in terms of use of my time....

O well. I guess horary divination was not designed to benefit the work/life balance of the astrologer!

Thanks again for all suggestions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 764
Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Susannah,

I do Phone Readings but the procedure is bit different. I take a call and a question and once I accept the question and the client have deposited the fee (all mine I donít have to give share to anybody). I take my time and answer it through phone. Mostly within 6 hours of receiving the fee. So, itís a mixture of phone reading and taking my own time to answer.

The public in general has high expectations of an astrologer and we work under a lot of pressure. If unfortunately we are not able to answer/judge correctly itís the reputation of astrology which is on stake. The main problem that I have faced in Pakistan is that most of the clients think that once they have paid a fee for a single question they are entitled to a life time of subsidized readings or free readings. The funny thing is that sometimes they call and ask indirectly a question like...
Few examples..

1. Whatís your opinion if I cut my hair short. Would X notice it? Would there be a change in our relationship? (And the emphasis is on "any change in relationship" forgetting that the answer to horary last week was in negative)

2. When would be my troubles over? When? please....and it demands that out of forced friendship one has to have a quick look at his/her natal chart or give a one minute horary reading..Which means cast a chart and give the reading on the spot. The pressure Laughing and if you get it wrong...you have another call after few days.....
Tariq! You were wrrrooong (yes, pronounce it that way)

I have inserted a line in my astrology brochure which reads as...

Quote:
 If you happen to be my friend, I would be reluctant to be of any service to you. If you intend to be my client, I would be reluctant to extend it to any informal relationship. Astrology requires unbiased judgments and discretions which are not possible in any informal relationship



3. Another problem in being astrologer is that you canít console another person..sometimes I wish to hug a friend in trouble and worry and say everything would be alright...but if I say that the next question is When? and we are again being pressurized to act as an astrologer...

I wish if I hug/console someone ...a police officer should be at the scene saying

" You are advised to remain silent anything you do or say would be used against you and your astrology in the Court of Astrology De-bunking"


Coming to the matter at hand.

The book ďRaheem ul Wakti ZaichaĒ is written in Urdu and is not available on net. The method described is based on

-Tropical &
-Whole Sign House system.


The method is applied where people are queuing up for the answers and letís say you are answering within few minutes. In your case I donít think it would be applicable when you have other equally good options.

Notwithstanding anything contained in the above paragraph. I have also done e-mail reading. The email reading is a different ball game. Itís up to you when you sign in to see your emails. If you have time, take the questions one by one and answer them separately without bothering to open any other email. Multi-tasking is not encouraged. Resist the temptation to see all the questions at one time.

You have also raised the question whether one chart (same degree of ascendant and first house for two or more querents ) is a viable option or not?. I would say yes. It has happened with me. I got calls within seconds and two querents had the same chart and almost same degree of ascendant. The answer was correct in both the cases.

The Horary is not mechanical. I would call it more spiritual. Itís God who decides which troubled soul is going to contact you. The one thing he may require us is it to be sure which system we are going to use (faith?). If we decide to use ĎRegiomontanusí he would arrange the matters as such. If we decide to use ĎWhole Signí he would arrange the matters as such. I have used both house systems alternately for the past 5 years and the success rate was same.( situational analysis almost 100% and final outcome more than 85%). I am against the practise of astrologers who want to check and apply their new theories on old charts/horaries. The old charts answered to the techniques and house system which you used at that time. For new theories use new charts.

If you decide to answer people within 5 minutes of receiving the question. God would send you those clients whose chart could be read in 5 minutes. Itís you who has to make up your mind.

There are no secret techniques in Horary except a reasonable knowledge, faith in yourself and a genuine desire to help the people. I am not in favour of taking hours and hours to make an analysis. The concentration level one has cannot be extended beyond one hour. Make an analysis and sleep over it. You would have an answer. The people who are too much technique oriented are bound to get more failures. Mercury rules astrology and itís the trickiest of the planets. You may have the pet technique and it may be working for you for many years. Once you are confident that you have got the ultimate secret. God intervenes and you would get answers wrong consistently for a period by using the same technique. Itís always nice to have some faith and always wise to know that only God is the one who gives/bestows with fame or infamy. We are just the puppets.

There is an astrologer who is based in Karachi (Pakistan) he charges 3 dollars for any 5 questions. In 2001 I asked him 5 questions by post. I wanted to pull his legs. One of the question was that I want to Marry X. When would I marry her? He answered that you cannot marry her you married in your 18th year because Venus is in your 7th house. And the lord of 7th Saturn is conjunct South Node you married in haste (100% correct). He did not use period system. My next question was when would I have a foreign tour in my life?. He answered that according to Horary the lord of 9th has a separating aspect of 19 degrees with the ruler of ascendant and I had already lived up to 2 years in a foreign country at the age of 6 (100% Correct). I met few of his clients and they also reported astounding accuracy to him. When I got interested in Horary in early 2007 I called him and asked about his techniques. The techniques he used were simple. Lord of the ascendant and aspects. For matters asking about the good or bad of any matter he looked at the occupants of a house and the condition of the ruler. The success lies in keeping it simple. He was taught astrology by his father and for the rest of life he has kept on practising and refining those techniques. I cannot forget his advice. He advised me to read any one good book and keep on practising the rules. He said that astrology is 5% knowledge and 95% actual practise and experience.

The reason for this lengthy discussion is that:

-Two or more querents could be answered from a single chart

-Horary as an art requires us to use few and simple tools of analysis and to get to the judgement portion quickly.

-Experience should be the basis rather than reading of lot of the books in search of any elusive or secret technique.

-There are many techniques in Horary and all of them work itís the astrologer who is required to be consistent and resultantly God would send him those clients whose chart answer to techniques adopted by that particular astrologer

-The chart is specific for a Querent and it is also specific for the astrologer of that particular chart.

-Mundane questions can be answered from the horary chart, however, it is preferable that the person asking that question has some stake in the answer. Itís wrong to assume that billions of the people are asking the same question. Yes, they may be asking the same question but every horary chart has a particular Querent and a particular astrologer. Like Chess there are a lot of combinations to start the game as well as to end the game. Nobody would stop the chess player in the start because he has moved his pawn to D4.
_________________
Regards

Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Paul
Administrator


Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1551

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PallasAthene wrote:

Paul and Johannes and dastars... Yes, it follows that each question should have a unique time, not least out of respect to the individual querent and their question. But as a practical consideration, it takes me about an hour to judge a chart and write it out. (usually, one to one, voice readings are half an hour, sometimes an hour, sometimes less). And I will actually get less money for a written reading than for a voice reading. So, I need a practical way to read the right chart and manage my time to make it worth my while actually taking on this work.


Well I'm not sure what to to say to you here. I'm not sure how any other way would result in the time being quicker. The problem here is one of how long it takes you to do a reading rather than anything about a process for which order or what time to do them in.

I think if you practice it more it shouldn't take an hour. I normally read most charts in a few minutes, quickly jotting down the main points. However you may want to consider varying pricing levels, cheaper for a skype call and more expensive to write one up. Otherwise you may want to invest in a technology that converts dictated speech into 'typed text'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 696
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, it's not the judging of the chart that takes the time. It's the writing and explaining in words what you are seeing. Most charts reveal the answer very quickly, but when dealing with clients background and situational analysis is required. It may be that I decide to stick to real-time phone readings for a number of reasons. I do not feel the pressure of "instant judgments" so strongly now, because of Horatio's important point which I am coming to...

Horatio, thank you again for your thoughtful post.
Yes, I very strongly believe that I am "sent" particular clients "for a reason". When I first started, I gave up after 3 months. The pressure was too much for me. I felt that I was affecting people's lives with my judgments and I wasn't confident in being 100% right. Then I had a very difficult querent who was totally stuck. The moon was void, there wasn't going to be any change in her situation. She needed to change her own attitude before her situation could change. Yet she wanted me,as her reader, to manifest the changes for her.

I went back to my counselling studies, joined a Spiritualist church briefly, and resumed a year later, having become more confidence in my own ability to "help" people and with a more developed awareness of my own spirituality and a deeper connection to spirit.
Consequently, I know that whatever I have to say to a querent is "the right thing". Before I sign on for work, I always ask that I be sent people I can actually help.

Another thing that I've noticed, and which as a counsellor caused me come ethical issues, was how much I was identifying with querents. They'd ask their question, I'd look at the chart and realise that I was going through the same thing in my own life. As a counsellor, this is a "no-no" and something that has to be considered very carefully, even to the point of referring the client to someone else.

My conclusion is that every reading is a "2-way street". I learn from everyone I speak to and read for. Also, empathy is a much under rated ethical quality. If I hadn't experienced similar issues, perhaps I wouldn't be able to be so effective (assuming that I am) at helping.

I still have difficulty with delivering "bad news". I have a recent case that I might post here because I got it wrong by trying to be too optimistic. The aspect was an opposition with reception. Tricky to judge anyway.

Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1579

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Especially for reception of horary questions by e-mail is reported of his own practice by Andrew Bevan here:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7289

where he stresses to avoid that
Andrew Bevan wrote:
the moment of the querent easily gets lost.
[...]
So several questions may be in line when I open office and turn on the computor at more the less the same time every day. These horaries are not all cast for the same moment of when I turn on the computor and read through the mail, but the email host registers the time for when each individual question reaches my server, and was lay on my table, so to speak. So in these instances I am using my location but the time offered or commited by the querent.


Johannes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 696
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Johanes for bringing this to my attention. And to Andrew for derailing a thread and taking the time to explain. In a football thread as well!

I saw this post earlier today and have given 2 email readings today. I cast the charts for when I understood the question, and in the interests of investigation, looked at the charts for when the question was logged. Both had a couple of hours difference.

Interestingly, I felt that both charts described the situation of that question. I am happy with the first reading I gave, but the second had the aspect that I hate.. an opposition with reception in the "email time" chart. In the "my time" chart. the querent was approaching combustion. So, it seems that both charts indicate difficulties in the longer term. In both charts the quesited was enamoured of the querent, jup in gemini and mars in pisces respectively. Let's hope that love finds a way for this querent!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 696
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again johannes, I just found this;

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7179&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

johannes susato wrote:
geo wrote:
Johannes Susato wrote:
the relevant time and place of a question asked of people, who are not able to give an own astrological answer to their own question, is the place of the astrologer and the time , when he understands the question.


I haven't worked this way so far.. The truth is that I find it more trouble, in the sence that I would always be doubting the moment i picked up to delianate the chart.. Confused

Perhaps this quotation of Lilly is of interest for you, Georgia?

Lilly, CA, p. 166:
"Of the time of receiving any Q U E S T I O N.

Without doubt the true houre of receiving any Question is
then, when the Querent propounds his desire unto the Astrolo-
ger, even that very moment of time, in my opinion, is to be ac-
cepted: [...]; perhaps I receive
the Letter into my hands at three of clock in any day of the
week, but in regard of some occasions, doe not read it untill
four or five hours after; that very hour and minute of hour
when I break it open, and perceive the intention of the Querent,
is the time to which I ought to erect my Figure
, and from
thence to draw mine Astrologicall Judgment: This way and man-
ner have I practised, and found successe answerable:"

Johannes


And what with this thread too
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7253

seems we are all questioning out methods at the moment which can only be a good thing!

The other day I had 3 email readings waiting for me. The 1st and 2nd I managed to do without a hitch.

The third, I kept getting interrupted just as I was about to read the question. Funny cos I had a really strong urge on 2 occasions to get on with the next reading, but I was prevented from doing so. Maybe those interruptions were the universe saying it wasn't the right time yet? I hope I can locate the chart and that the client updates!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated