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Sex Addict Chart
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Talia



Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 50

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Sex Addict Chart Reply with quote

This is a serious question.

How do you look at a chart asking 'is he a sex addict?' I would like to map out the steps beforehand. (I've not made the chart yet.)

Look at his turned L5 ruler's health?
Or take L1 to be him?
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1117
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. I am sure some astrologers out there have studied this area of astrology and might give some of their wisdom. I would think natal would be more helpful, and in studying charts of sex addicts (comparing them to his chart for any connections). For example, Tiger Woods, Henry VIII, Michael Douglas, Bill Clinton, etc.

There is an article on Skyscript related to Casanova:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/casanova.html

If you don't have access to his natal, then you might want to turn a horary chart and analyze his house, his significator, his dispositor, the next aspect the Moon makes and perhaps his 5th house/5th ruler (probably the sign and placement of the Sun also and its relationship to Venus). Unfortunately, horary is not a natal chart, but it can still provide a lot of information.

There is much debate as to causation, but to me it generally seems much like an illness that is perhaps more so a mental illness rather than physiological, which starts to meander out of 5th house activity. There could be a bigger issue, such as a personality disorder.

Also, signifying sexual issues using traditional methods is tricky at best. Some may not feel it is even a valid issue to address. As Deb says in "Questioning our Horaries":

Quote:
The reason why there is so much confusion about which house rules sex is because ancient astrologers were never so impudent in the questions they sought heavenly guidance upon. Of course there may be very sincere questions asked concerning sex or matters of a sexual nature...
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 419

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



"Duchovny's announcement that he was voluntarily going into rehab for sex addiction after years of denying he had a problem, threw a spotlight on a disorder that few celebrities, and even fewer ordinary men and women, admit to.

Often likened to alcoholism, drug addiction or gambling, sex addiction is a form of compulsive behavior which is sending growing numbers of people into therapy but which is not formally recognized as a "diagnosable disorder" by the American Psychiatric Association.

"The concept of sexual addiction is a controversial one and that's because it is difficult to define," said Dr. Steve Eichel, an addiction specialist who works in Delaware.

"There are a lot of people who are critical of the concept because we live in a society that tends to over medicalize and which makes every behavior, which deviates from the norm, an addiction or a disorder," Eichel said.

Sexual health experts estimate that about 3-5 percent of Americans have the disorder, including women." Lala Happy

So, here is David Duchovny's "cosmogramm" (time is unknown)
http://nancyfenn.blogspot.com/2008/09/blog-post.html

So far just Venus in Leo with Leo Sun, in applying opposition to Moon.
And trine/sextile of retro-Jupiter in Sagittarius to those.
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Carol



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 210

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since it's supposedly an "addiction" or at least self-destructive behavior, in horary wouldn't we look mainly to the 12th as the quesited?
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1219
Location: Delhi

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Sex Addict Chart Reply with quote

Talia wrote:
This is a serious question.

How do you look at a chart asking 'is he a sex addict?' I would like to map out the steps beforehand. (I've not made the chart yet.)

Look at his turned L5 ruler's health?
Or take L1 to be him?


The answer was there, you weren't looking Confused
Venus is in taurus conjunct algol at the time of your post Cool
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Talia



Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 50

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Sex Addict Chart Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:
Talia wrote:
This is a serious question.

How do you look at a chart asking 'is he a sex addict?' I would like to map out the steps beforehand. (I've not made the chart yet.)

Look at his turned L5 ruler's health?
Or take L1 to be him?


The answer was there, you weren't looking Confused
Venus is in taurus conjunct algol at the time of your post Cool


I'm not sure how valid that is or what you're really saying? Please explain. I was thinking about this question a while before I posted.

Leo Bascalia, Dr. Love had Venus in Taurus conjunct Algol as well. Lovely man when I had met him.


Last edited by Talia on Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Talia



Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 50

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:
Wow. I am sure some astrologers out there have studied this area of astrology and might give some of their wisdom. I would think natal would be more helpful, and in studying charts of sex addicts (comparing them to his chart for any connections). For example, Tiger Woods, Henry VIII, Michael Douglas, Bill Clinton, etc.

There is an article on Skyscript related to Casanova:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/casanova.html

If you don't have access to his natal, then you might want to turn a horary chart and analyze his house, his significator, his dispositor, the next aspect the Moon makes and perhaps his 5th house/5th ruler (probably the sign and placement of the Sun also and its relationship to Venus). Unfortunately, horary is not a natal chart, but it can still provide a lot of information.

There is much debate as to causation, but to me it generally seems much like an illness that is perhaps more so a mental illness rather than physiological, which starts to meander out of 5th house activity. There could be a bigger issue, such as a personality disorder.

Also, signifying sexual issues using traditional methods is tricky at best. Some may not feel it is even a valid issue to address. As Deb says in "Questioning our Horaries":

Quote:
The reason why there is so much confusion about which house rules sex is because ancient astrologers were never so impudent in the questions they sought heavenly guidance upon. Of course there may be very sincere questions asked concerning sex or matters of a sexual nature...


This is good info. I will look more.
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Talia



Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 50

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First thanks for all tips above.

The chart is below. Sorry for forgetting to take out the aspect lines. I can change if asked but this was already uploaded.



He is L7. Jupiter person in peregrine state.
Ruled by Venus or literally love you could say.
Not in bad house (turned) and his dispositor is in the best of shape. I don't see this benefic character ruled by Venus as a sex-addict at all>
But not so quick. As Tanit commented, look to L5 ruler. Sun. It is strong in his first house. Exalted, in face and triplicity. Strong drive? Raw energy of life itself. I see health and initiation, but not illness. Impatience and selfishness, would come from a demanding Arian nature, Uranus is there too but we don't necessarily count that. Its telling nevertheless.
Here's the worry. His turned L6 ruler is Mercury in Pisces retrograding and in H12. I see some problem here. His health ruler in this case is in detriment and fall. What to make of this? I don't think its complete confirmation, maybe his Sun in Aries habits, placing too much emphasis on sex is making it too much of a priority?
Cusp of his health is on REGULUS. Another strength of health.
Mercury exalts Venus in Pisces. This again is a nod to love. A love in rulership. And not anything driven by addiction I see.
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1117
Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to challenge anyone's judgement, but the Sun exalted in the derived first makes me wonder about Narcissism, which is a complex often associated with sexual addiction. As we have discussed before in this forum regarding thieves, even well dignified planets don't always behave in ways that are the most favorable. The Sun in Aries can be quite selfish, as you mentioned. With Uranus also involved with the Moon and his house, I especially would wonder about ego issues and selfishness. Perhaps he just has a healthy sex drive, but the Sun is in aversion to Venus and in its own exaltation and Venus' detriment, which again emphasizes some selfishness. The Sun is "chasing" Venus by Venus being occidental, which is the correct placement of the Sun and would suggest an aggressive male.

Quote:
His turned L6 ruler is Mercury in Pisces retrograding and in H12.


I would regard Mercury within the 5 degree cusp rule for the 7th house, which would be his 6th ruler in his 1st (this is generally an indication of illness). Mercury is currently conjunct Markab, retrograde and obviously essentially very poor. Mercury tends to represent mental issues. I also don't like Mars in the radical 12th opposite Neptune. I know that it's not aspecting any of the key planets, other than a separating aspect to Jupiter (and an out of sign aspect to Venus) but it's evident in Tiger Woods' chart and I usually think of some sexual perversion when I see a male with Mars peregrine, retro and opposite Neptune (in natal, though - this is horary)! I tend to look at the outer planets a bit more than most, however.

Anyway, just my two cents! I am definitely not an expert on this issue. I would think with the Moon applying to trine a dignified Sun in his house suggests some normality and health at the very least. Perhaps a bit out of the norm but not in the psychotic realm... Is he very young (probably not with Jupiter as his significator, but perhaps age will temper him)?
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Talia



Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 50

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to challenge anyone's judgement, but the Sun exalted in the derived first makes me wonder about Narcissism, which is a complex often associated with sexual addiction.

I want to be challenged to learn to read better. Your insight is appreciated.

With Uranus also involved with the Moon and his house, I especially would wonder about ego issues and selfishness.

Uranus is trine the Moon I took to be preferring to live life in his own way, regardless of others attitudes. Taking bold steps to be himself. Making excitement out of the mundane.


Perhaps he just has a healthy sex drive, but the Sun is in aversion to Venus and in its own exaltation and Venus' detriment, which again emphasizes some selfishness. The Sun is "chasing" Venus by Venus being occidental, which is the correct placement of the Sun and would suggest an aggressive male.

Skirt-chaser, probably a player after his own satisfaction. I see what you mean.

I usually think of some sexual perversion when I see a male with Mars peregrine, retro and opposite Neptune

I see Mars Rx too as troublesome. But in Pisces not Virgo. I have to park this idea for now.

Is he very young (probably not with Jupiter as his significator, but perhaps age will temper him)?

He is Jupiter age. Early 40s.
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talia said:

Quote:
How do you look at a chart asking 'is he a sex addict?' I would like to map out the steps beforehand. (I've not made the chart yet.)


It would be nice to see the horoscope of the horary and give the birth data of the query.

Of course with the present Mercury Rx, the communication problem is evident.

Is Talia, our Forum poster, asking the question or another as our querant?

The 5th is the house of romances and the pleasureable side of sexuality. Yet the 5th is Not nessasarily a house of sexual penetration, but romance and courtship.

I.E. I know personally of a woman who has had many relationships and suitors, many, did I say many romances, yet has Not had sexual penetration nor fellatio and as a Virgo Sun she maintains her 9th house religious sexual mores and is slightly under 50 years old and very much a beauty as a few Hollywood actress's. This describes what can be or May be a possible romance addict yet Not a sex addict.

The 8th is the house of both intercourse and oral sex so the quesited has to involve the 8th, yet other posters have hinted at the 12th of self-undoing as the probable house.

Again, it would be nice to see the chart data, the horoscope, and of whom is the querant posted intially rather in vague form; more arstists may respond if we did make our posts easier to understand.

Talia, if you give the Time, Place, and Date, I'm sure someone will most likely post the chart that all can view.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
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Talia



Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 50

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clinton Soule wrote:
Talia said:

Quote:
How do you look at a chart asking 'is he a sex addict?' I would like to map out the steps beforehand. (I've not made the chart yet.)


It would be nice to see the horoscope of the horary and give the birth data of the query.

Of course with the present Mercury Rx, the communication problem is evident.

Is Talia, our Forum poster, asking the question or another as our querant?

The 5th is the house of romances and the pleasureable side of sexuality. Yet the 5th is Not nessasarily a house of sexual penetration, but romance and courtship.

I.E. I know personally of a woman who has had many relationships and suitors, many, did I say many romances, yet has Not had sexual penetration nor fellatio and as a Virgo Sun she maintains her 9th house religious sexual mores and is slightly under 50 years old and very much a beauty as a few Hollywood actress's. This describes what can be or May be a possible romance addict yet Not a sex addict.

The 8th is the house of both intercourse and oral sex so the quesited has to involve the 8th, yet other posters have hinted at the 12th of self-undoing as the probable house.

Again, it would be nice to see the chart data, the horoscope, and of whom is the querant posted intially rather in vague form; more arstists may respond if we did make our posts easier to understand.

Talia, if you give the Time, Place, and Date, I'm sure someone will most likely post the chart that all can view.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know


Our founding fathers in horary certainly never had much of this type of dilemma. L5 or 8. And sorry I do not how how the chart disappeared.

April 1, 2012
Lewiston - NY, good ol USofA
6:10 PM
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one goes to astro.com, and uses the Liz Greene type of chart, and goes down to where it say 'chart size' and puts 75% as the horoscope size, using of course as our Mentor Lilly did Regio table of houses, and Does Not enlarge this chart, but copys down the web address, one can put this on the Forum and it will last:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=te1file8dsiyH-u1333495338&lang=e&gm=a1&nhor=1&nho2=1&btyp=2&mth=gr&sday=3&smon=4&syr=2012&hsy=5&zod=&orbp=&rs=2&add=18&node=-Yn&pfday=-YP+1&fix=1&ast=

My computer forbids me to post the chart as many do or my computer illiteracy leaves me in the dark upon how to do what many have and can do posting the horary maps.

If you click on the webb site above the horoscope of this horary will appear. You can place it on your screen, print it out or send it to an email if you look closely at the web page as listed above.

Talia properly lists for all to see the data as our host has suggested:

Quote:
April 1, 2012
Lewiston - NY, good ol USofA
6:10 PM


Our adept Tanit has stated:

Quote:
I would regard Mercury within the 5 degree cusp rule for the 7th house, which would be his 6th ruler in his 1st (this is generally an indication of illness). Mercury is currently conjunct Markab, retrograde and obviously essentially very poor. Mercury tends to represent mental issues. I also don't like Mars in the radical 12th opposite Neptune. I know that it's not aspecting any of the key planets, other than a separating aspect to Jupiter (and an out of sign aspect to Venus) but it's evident in Tiger Woods' chart and I usually think of some sexual perversion when I see a male with Mars peregrine, retro and opposite Neptune (in natal, though - this is horary)! I tend to look at the outer planets a bit more than most, however.


As that dear fleeting Mercury is running backwards presently and about to station(mental glithes in communication), I understand from the above that our querant is indeed the poster and horary artist; even if she has not officialy posted it in the first post on this thread and it's still a little vague to me.

So, if the 7th is the querant's suitor or boy friend, his 8th is the horary's 2nd, the derived house of the matter ruled by Venus cjt Argol('off with his head') as Traditionalists would vehelmently stand upon.

Having Not looked at the ephemeris to see if Luna will perfect the squ to Anthrodite before she(Venus) goes into Gemini, I'd say based upon the general rule or the typical rule of the first aspect to the Lord of the matter gives the verdict about 85% of the time that No, the suitor or boy friend is Not a sex addict!

Yet Term, Face, Dignitys, etc., have to be taken into account. And with a Mercury Rx one has to look very closely at the overall map.

Unless of course if I am wrong about the 8th(sexual intercourse and oral) being the house of the matter. And I do stand to be corrected by any of my horary elders who truly know in Traditionalism on this or any concept in horary!

Note: Carol's observation of the 12th house involved, how Mars(lord of sexuality) is cjt by Lilly's Five Degree Rule on the 12th house cusp and in the 12H, Rx, yet unaspected!

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
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Talia



Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 50

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clinton, Thank you for your helpful answer! I've been away buying a new computer. I had to wait until Mer went direct. I didn't imagine the answer to be no. The reason being I took Su for his rad L5 (sex). I have to consider your 8 house theory makin a strong case. What do you think of 5? Strong Su would be in Aris and his L1.
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talia,

I think you need to re-read my comments about the 5th house is courtship, romance, affairs, etc., but Not nessasarily penetration nor oral as that's the 8th; that's what many Moderns say.

But I'm basing this on Anthony Louis's first book of which he has since admitted he was a Modern at the time and has since studied more Traditionalism.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=te1file8dsiyH-u1333495338&lang=e&gm=a1&nhor=1&nho2=1&btyp=2&mth=gr&sday=3&smon=4&syr=2012&hsy=5&zod=&orbp=&rs=2&add=18&node=-Yn&pfday=-YP+1&fix=1&ast=

In Lilly's time remember as with many writters in Europe since the Church became influential, Lilly was under Church scrunity just as the Islamic horary artists are under the Preisthood's influences of the Koran.

If you read the early part of CA you understand Lilly is defending his positions within the 9th house order of his time.

So, as I was re-reading Lilly today on the 7th house matters, I think you are truly asking if he will have other sexual partners outside or marriage, co-habitation boundarys, or the aggreement that you two specify as your commitment?

CA pp. 312-316. (Lilly is speaking of infidelity or sexual loyalty)

That is Jupiter as lord of the 7th, Pisces, and Jupiter will recieve a squ from Luna that says generally 85% of the time, No he is not a sex addict! Look at Lilly under questions concerning the 7th house where he talks about wives being faithful, which is about sexual fidelity I'm sure!

Of course just as Lilly with his Point System varibles like Term, Face, dignitys, etc. have to be consulted.

You might Not have got that many responses because what is a sex addict in actualty and by who's definition?

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
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