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Traditional primary directions example
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:34 am    Post subject: Traditional primary directions example Reply with quote

On another thread, I promised to give at least one example of the traditional use of primary directions. Reaching into my stash of Astro-Databank charts and pulling out the top one (in alphabetical order), I found Abigail Gustafson, who was killed just a week before her 8th birthday:
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gustafson,_Abigail
I won’t post the chart, but rather allow everyone to cast it themselves using their choice of zodiac, house system, etc.

The first thing an astrologer would traditionally look for in a nativity was the length of life, determined by the hyleg or apheta. I will follow Ptolemy here in disregarding the tangled question of the alcochoden, which in my experience does not work consistently anyway. The hyleg or primary significator of life is undoubtedly the Sun, closely conjunct the descendant.

Moving the Sun symbolically forward along the zodiac, we see that it will first encounter the trine aspect of the Moon and next the square of Saturn. The latter aspect is potentially dangerous to life. It then becomes important to calculate in what year this direction falls, what other directions take place around that time, and whether they support or threaten life.

The direction traditionally described as Sun to the square of Saturn by direct motion is calculated by bringing the ecliptical point of Saturn’s square with the primary motion to the Sun’s position just below the horizon. The arc of this direction is 10°09ʹ, corresponding to almost 10 years 2 months by Ptolemy’s reckoning.

Prior to this direction, however, we find that the Sun is involved in a so-called converse direction to the square of Mars. This is calculated by bringing the Sun itself with the primary motion (not against it!) to the radical position of Mars’ square aspect. The arc of direction is 7°52ʹ, or a little more than 7 years 10 months.

Although the Sun is the main significator of life, it is pertinent to note that, since the Sun is so close to the horizon, the ascendant will be involved in the same directions at approximately the same times. Thus, the ascendant is directed by direct motion to the square of Saturn with an arc of 9°17ʹ and by converse motion to the square of Mars with an arc of 8°44ʹ.

We thus get a train of deadly directions involving both the malefics, as follows:
Sun converse to the square of Mars 7°52ʹ
Ascendant converse to the square of Mars 8°44ʹ
Ascendant direct to the square of Saturn 9°17ʹ
Sun direct to the square of Saturn 10°09ʹ
All of these are calculated in the zodiac, without latitude. Although Jupiter is conjunct Mars within a couple of degrees, the square of a single benefic entering into the mixture is not likely to avert the misfortune.

When there is such a train, the very first direction often kills, if other techniques agree. Casting the revolution for Abigail’s 7th birthday (I use the sidereal/precessed revolution), we find both the malefics in the angles along with the Sun, Mars applying by square to Saturn as ruler of the ascendant. Moreover, Mars partilely opposes its own radical position. Abigail was shot in the head (Mars), then drowned (Saturn), on the day that the transiting Sun perfected a square to Mars in both charts.
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james_m



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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for doing this and sharing martin. i appreciate it. i am happy to see you include converse directions. i find the data often very relevant. i am tempted to ask more questions, but i will let others take this up here.
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
thanks for doing this and sharing martin. i appreciate it. i am happy to see you include converse directions. i find the data often very relevant. i am tempted to ask more questions, but i will let others take this up here.

Please note, though, that these are not converse directions in the modern sense! All traditional directions are calculated with the natural rotation of the earth, not against it. A direction is considered converse when the point moved by diurnal motion is the significator of a matter (in this case, the Sun or ascendant), rather than the promissor affecting the matter (the malefics).
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james_m



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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi martin,

i am well aware of the distinction by your use of the word 'traditional primary directions'.. perhaps since you are bringing this up i will make mention of solar arc directions, something that is in use nowadays.. bottom line - primary directions are not the same as solar arc directions and unless the term is outlined clearly in some 'context' which you gave, it will indeed create confusion with some..
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lihin



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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: 'Traditional'? Reply with quote

Good afternoon,

My assumption is that Professor Martin Gansten includes only Western Hellenistic and Mediaeval astrologies (perhaps Indian as well?) in his definition of 'traditional' but excludes Renaissance astrology, ex. gr. Signor Placido di Titi. Is this assumption correct? If not, Professor Gansten would much oblige by enlightening us on this, for which many thanks in advance.

Best regards,

lihin
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 'Traditional'? Reply with quote

'Traditional' is an elastic term. Certainly, much that Placidus taught was of his own invention; but at least he did not direct against the natural diurnal motion, if that is what you are thinking of. The first author explicitly to advocate directions against the diurnal motion (that is, against time) seems to have been Zadkiel I (R. J. Morrison), in The Hand-book of Astrology (London 1861–63). If there is an earlier source, I haven't seen it. (Morrison may not even have been aware that his new definition was untraditional.)
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lihin



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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Sky maps and data for example Reply with quote

Good evening,

The first thing i normally do when studying an astrological case is to replicate the data. Here are some charts and data cast using Janus software. As Professor Gansten has used the sidereal year for the native's Solar Revolution of 1986, i offer charts using the tropical zodiac of the northern hemisphere, the solar year and whole sign places and, in contrast, the natal chart using a so-called 'sidereal' equal-sign zodiac, that attributed to Hipparkhos that was identical to the tropical zodiac at that time. It at least fulfils an objective criterion for such 'sidereal' zodiacs, namely that the Alpha Stars of each and every unequal constellation are within the equal signs bearing the same names.

Nativity of Miss Abigail GUSTAFSON, tropical zodiac of northern hemisphere, whole sign places:



Nativity of Miss Abigail GUSTAFSON, 'sidereal Hipparkhos' zodiac, 'classical' quadrant fields:



1986 Solar Revolution, tropical, whole sign places:



1986 Solar Revolution, sidereal, 'classical' quadrant fields:



Death 1 December 1987 (warning: the Astro Databank lists the birth time in European format, the date of birth in US-American format; the comment 'age almost eight' is indispensable), set to 15h40 local time at Townsend, Massachusetts, USA, tropical, whole sign places:



Death, 'sidereal Hipparkhos', 'classical' quadrant fields:



Here are the primary directions (no differences depending on zodiacs) discussed by Professor Gansten including differences by some minutes of arc for those of Mars:



On comparing this data with Professor Gansten's list, it seems one cannot quite confirm the transit of Sun to natal Mars on the date of death, it apparently having occurred during the prior day, 30 November, at about 08h45.

Best regards,

lihin
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Last edited by lihin on Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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james_m



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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lihin,

solar return chart - sidereal mars position - 8 aq 59
transit chart for noon -dec 1/87 sun position sidereal - 9 sc 22
natal chart mars position sidereal - 8 leo 13

close enough i would say, but perhaps you wouldn't!!! what does ptolemy say? LOL...
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lihin



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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: More exact time of death Reply with quote

Good evening,

From the records of the trial one reads in the footnotes:

Quote:
"[Note 12] There was evidence that the crimes were committed sometime between 1:30 P.M. and 5 P.M. A neighbor reported hearing a girl's scream from the direction of the Gustafson home at approximately 3:35 P.M."


According i have amended the time of death in the above maps to 15h40. The quartile between transit Sun and natal Mars perfected more than 24 hours previously. With my limited mental capabilities i simply take vocabulary, grammar and syntax at their 'face values'. However, the natal chart has not yet been rectified. Experts in such matters like Regulus Astrology rectify to seconds of arc and time using various techniques including primary directions.

"Close" is relative. Five minutes difference (rounded) of Right Ascension in the above primary directions of Mars mean, using Ptolemy's key of 1 degree RA = 1 year as has done Professor Gansten, a timing difference of about 30 days.

Best regards,

lihin
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varuna2



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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete

Last edited by varuna2 on Sat May 04, 2013 8:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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lihin



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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: What, please? Reply with quote

Good evening,

Mr Varuna II, what is wrong, please? Hopefully you have noticed, as i explicitly mentioned, that i have used 'Hipparkhos' zodiac', not Lahiri's or Fagan-Bradley's. Anyone who so desires may of course post charts using other zodiacs, there being 30 or so such 'sidereal' zodiacs to choose from in current software programmes.

Best regards,

lihin
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varuna2



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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete

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Tom
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not the sidereal forum, folks. It has its own forum.
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Graham F



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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello

As Lihin notes, the transiting Sun squared natal Mars on 30 November 1987 (at about 10am, according to Solar Fire). This transiting Sun squared Mars in the 1986 solar return on 1st December 87 (date of death) at 2am. So Martin is not far off...

Concerning Lihin's remark about rectification, for an interplanetary primary direction, five minutes (time) rectification would change the Sun-Mars direction by 6 days only, using Ptolemy or Naibod. We are not dealing with angles here.
If Lihin means 5 minutes of arc of RA (which I think he does), the rectification would have to be 2 hours to require such an adjustment in the RA of the Sun. Such an error seems unlikely.

Graham
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Graham F



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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom is right that there is a sidereal forum, to which he may decide to banish this post, but unfortunately it is often less lively, well informed and interesting than this one, and sometimes "traditional" techniques are hard to classify as specifically tropical or sidereal. I know of no astrologers who actually use the "Hipparchos" offset, which seems to be an extrapolation from the stars which visibly rose (paranatellonta) and set along with the vernal point as viewed from Rhodes in Hipparchos day. Martin Gansten (like the late Richard Houck and a number of other leading "empirically-inclined" astrologers), uses Krishnamurti ayanamsa, which has an offset from tropical over 3°30' greater than "Hipparchos", and which, in PD terms (e.g., the traditional technique of directing through the bounds, where choice of zodiac is crucial) would represent 3 years 6 months or more of difference, and can often move chart factors to the following sign (here, the MC, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, but this is the traditional forum…)

Best wishes
Graham
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