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Clockwise house system

 
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damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Clockwise house system Reply with quote

I'm thinking that the conundrum of the traditional meanings of the 12th and 1st houses presented by Gauquelin's research can only be resolved by either using a clockwise house system, or using the cusp of a house as its center. GAUGUELINS data seems to indicate that the sun conjunct but above the horizon at birth is more significant in terms of personal achievement, or the innate ability to "shine".

Wasn't it considered good fortune by astrologers throughout the millennia that a monarch be born with the sun rising just above the ascendant at birth? A sun position just below the horizon at birth for a ruler was considered to be a bad omen.

There is an article called "as above so below" by Jonnie Perrot which deals with that
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lihin



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 470
Location: Mount Kailash

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Sun not relevant? Reply with quote

Good afternoon,

To the best of my feeble knowledge, the data resulting from the meticulous, diligent research by Monsieur and Madame Michel & Françoise Gauquelin did not confirm any correlations at all between human affairs and ecliptical and / or mundane positions of the Sun. Like much resulting from the Gauquelins' research, this was of course quite a disappointment for many astrologers.

However, the astrological premises assumed by M. Michel Gauquelin may have been useful, because simple, from statisticians' perspectives but not necessarily from those of many astrologers. For example, Mediaeval astrology does not usually assert that specific effects can be, isolated from the overall context of the chart, attributed to specific isolated planets or points one-to-one. Whoever has learned to delineate an astrological place by Hellenistic or Mediaeval methods knows what is meant.

Moreover, already some Hellenistic astrologers, ex. gr. Klaudios Ptolomaios, used for example a zone of five ecliptical degrees to include pivotal phenomena in the relevant delineations.

Best regards,

lihin
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lifestudent



Joined: 27 Nov 2013
Posts: 96
Location: Earth

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject: Gauquelin's findings Reply with quote

It is indeed true that Gauquelin's findings seem to support the use of a clockwise system, or at least they show us that the key sectors for planetary effects were right after the ASC and MC angles counting clockwise, or before the angles counting counter-clockwise. The "cadent" houses above the horizon (12th & 9th) gave the most prominent effect.

http://www.astrology-and-science.com/g-hist2.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_effect

And houses 1,2,3&7 had the least effect.
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Michael Sternbach



Joined: 01 Mar 2014
Posts: 479
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While Gauquelin's research is noteworthy and to a significant degree supportive of the astrological notions, the statistical method itself is tricky. Astrology overall has been both 'proven' and 'refuted' based on statistics, as has homeopathy. Laughing

Astrology as we know it works just fine for me. I see no reason why Gauquelin's statistical research should be rated higher than (and used to revise) the knowledge gained and confirmed during many centuries by the experience of numerous astrologers.
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Last edited by Michael Sternbach on Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Arvind



Joined: 07 Nov 2016
Posts: 56

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gauquelin's research has fascinated me for over 30 years. Considering the work by him is still probably the most rigorously conducted and relevant statistical work on astrology ever done.

A lot of his findings support some fundamental concepts in astrology, but at the same time do not support others such as cadent houses being "weak."

Mostly though, what I have come away with reading his studies is the humongous task it is to test even the most basic of concepts in astrology. No wonder we do not have similar studies in all the years since Gauquelin, the task is "Herculean" to say the least.

Like Michael, I have to agree that Gauquelin's research is largely irrelevant to me, at least until such a time that there are enough equally rigorous studies on the fundamental concepts in astrology to begin creating a systematic approach based on this future research. If it ever happens.

In the meantime, the tradition works well for me too.

Cheers,
~A.
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Astraea



Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 351
Location: Colorado, USA

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted something about astrologers who use clockwise houses on this thread: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6585&highlight=Dorsan (see the second post in the thread).
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Arvind



Joined: 07 Nov 2016
Posts: 56

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Clockwise house system Reply with quote

damon wrote:
I'm thinking that the conundrum of the traditional meanings of the 12th and 1st houses presented by Gauquelin's research can only be resolved by either using a clockwise house system, or using the cusp of a house as its center. GAUGUELINS data seems to indicate that the sun conjunct but above the horizon at birth is more significant in terms of personal achievement, or the innate ability to "shine".

The whole subject of clockwise houses and the octotopos has me digging around a bit. Anyone at all that is researching this should check out this site page: http://cura.free.fr/11domi2e.html
Very interesting to say the least as it addresses/incorporates the Gauguelin research too. I'm sure it's been discussed in the past on this forum. Not a light read IMO.
Cheers,
~A.
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