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mystery chart exercise dec 23rd 2012 in sidereal / lahiri

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3608
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: mystery chart exercise dec 23rd 2012 in sidereal / lahiri Reply with quote

my apologies for not giving enough time to respond to the first one..
you can take your time on this one as i will not release the answer until after christmas, but before the new year.. these are in sidereal /lahiri.
1 of these 5 charts is someone who has had a military career specifically involving flying..


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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 367

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say chart 5 (with chart 3 second choice, if that's allowed), but it's difficult, most of them look possible!

WSH, full Indian aspects only.
I've looked for associations of Asc/R1 or H10/R10 with H3 or H6 or their rulers, or with Saturn and/or Mars as general significators (military, discipline, hierarchy, engineering); (Saturn and Mars are also the natural significators of H3 (and 4) and H6 (and 1) respectively in system of Krushna ("KAS"), which I find the most convincing in respect of allotment of natural significators. (H3 is a martial house in Indian astro, showing valour, exploits, performance…) and H6 represents service including military. I would look rather for e.g. R3 or R6 in H1 or H10 than vice versa (which could weaken the 1st and 10th).
Not sure how to look for flying, maybe Rahu (NN: airy and "high flying"), but chart 5 was also suggestive by being diurnal with all the planets above horizon.

Chart 1 – Saturn R3 strong in 1, above horizon in sect. Venus R6 in 9 with R10 Sun (long journeys for service?). Mars in H10, with NN (ambition). But R1 Jupiter in 12, and R10 Mercury in 8, both aspected by SN (Indian aspect of 5 and 9).

Chart 2 – SN in H1, rising above Asc, supposedly negative but not sure how to interpret. Saturn R1 in 6, Mars opposite H1 with NN. Venus R10 in 6, with Sun R8 (not promising).

Chart 3 – I notice Venus R1 and Mercury R9 are both in 9 and strong, respectively 40° and 23° from the Sun in Taurus. This could indicate long journeys, missions far from home. Jupiter R3 and R6 is in H1. Saturn with Moon R10 (in 5). Mars in 12, which should weaken its natural significations, but as it's R2 and 7, this may affect family life wore than career; also Mars aspects H3 and H6, which could be positive.

Chart 4 – Jupiter R3 in H1, Saturn R1 and Venus R10 in 5 (Taurus). Mercury R6 is in 3, perhaps indicating military service, Mars R11 (professional gains) opp. Asc, the only (classical) planet above horizon in this nocturnal chart.

Chart 5 – Striking in that all planets, ancient and modern, are above horizon in this diurnal chart, and NN is in H10 – a "high flyer", self elevating, leader in a big organisation? Moon R10 (waxing) is in H1 (life centred around career). Jupiter R3 and R6 is in H11 (professional gains) with Mars (conjunct 2°). Venus R1, Sun R11, Mercury R9 and Saturn natural significator of discipline, engineering and of H3 are all in H9 – long journeys, martial missions away from home, long range communciations.
So I'll go for chart 5.

Graham
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3608
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for your input graham. i am going to hold off until into the new year giving any answer of clue on these charts as i am interested in getting more participation.. people are busy over the holidays and may not be able to find time here which is also why i am giving this update.. for those who are reading - please consider participating as it makes it more rewarding for all of us. thanks - james
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3608
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

graham - thanks so much for participating!

it is a daunting task! it is no easy feat to think of doing this with 3 charts let alone 5. i suspect some of the professional astrologers might not want there reputation tarnished by taking a chance doing this exercise which is fair enough. on the other hand suggesting a 2nd guess is really not getting down to the business of sharing your rationale for the first choice.. the most rewarding part of this experience is being able to read the astro 'logic' for why one chooses a particular chart.. as i said previously, getting it right is much less valuable then sharing your reasoning for a particular chart to which we can all learn from..

on another note, a well known astrologer does have a modern method for trying to define profession via the astrochart.. if traditional astrology has a method for doing this, it would be wonderful to have this clarified for us here.. i think some of the posters have helped clarify some of this for us to an extent...

i am going to give the chart for the person in question - military/flying profession, and i am also going to give a clue on one of the remaining 4 charts in terms of their profession.. i will be releasing the info much quicker this time.. i am not going to wait to try to engage as many.. if you want to offer your astro'logic' for the 1 of the remaining 4 charts with the clue i give, great! i will give the answer to this one in 2-3 days max.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hadfield
chart 1 is the chart of chris hadfield which you can read about in the wikipedia link. his birth data is - aug 29 1959 sarnia, canada 448pm.

of the remaining 4 charts, one of them is a physicist, and director for sub-atomic research at a major center for this type of activity.

no 2nd guesses as that is not the purpose of these exercises as i see it... thank you again for participating!
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 685

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James, I have just got home after the Christmas break and I am looking at your chart, where are you getting the data for the astronaut from? I am drawing up his chart in my program and I am getting different ASC values than you are.

I am using Delphic Oracle and it is giving me a - 4hr time zone for Sarnia, Ontario for that year. What are you using?
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Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5046
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konrad wrote:
Quote:
James, I have just got home after the Christmas break and I am looking at your chart, where are you getting the data for the astronaut from? I am drawing up his chart in my program and I am getting different ASC values than you are.

I am using Delphic Oracle and it is giving me a - 4hr time zone for Sarnia, Ontario for that year. What are you using?


I am using Solar Fire and get the same chart angles in Lahiri as James displayed on Chart 1.

I would interested in the data source too. Its not on Astrodatabank. I can only assume James has access to insider info on a fellow Canadian!

If you are right it would be rather hilarious (and perplexing!) for those of us that correctly picked this chart over on the traditional forum!

Mark
_________________
‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 685

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it would change the ASC sign if the Delphic Oracle time-zone is correct though, so I think the whole-sign houses would still be the same.

According to timeanddate.com, Sarnia never changed to EDT until 1970, so I would assume Solar Fire to be correct with this one unless Sarnia wasn't on EST back in 1959. I would be interested to see the source of the guy's birth time.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3608
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi konrad and mark,

my source is the 'canadian astrology collection' by john mckay-clements.
he gives est which solar fire also automatically gave me.. my feeling, but i don't have anything to substantiate the question on est verses edt, is that solar fire has this programmed in correctly as it conforms with the book i have which lists the data as i gave it.. the data in the book list it as AA : Sandee McMullan 1997, from mother citing birth records, "Sarnia General Hospital newborn nursery card."

here is a chart for mckay-clements listed on astro.com.. it mentions his book, but i don't know if it is easy to find this book anymore..
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/McKay-Clements,_John
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3608
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi folks,

chart 5 is the physicist, and director for sub-atomic research at a major center in ottawa here in canada. my data is again from the canadian astrology collection book by john mckay-clements.
hans mes born july 1 1944 17:35 eindhoven, netherlands will give you his chart. the data was given to jmc from hans.
'physicist, director, ottawa-situated centre for research in particle physics, canada's major sub-atmonic research facility, 1990-, research council 1973-1991, adjunct prof., university of ottawa 1986-1992, carleton university 1985-? book was published in 1998..

if someone would like to comment on the remaining 3 and offer your astrological perspective on it - great! i will give out the data on the remaining 3 charts within the week or less..
one of the charts is for a well known singer/songwriter,

another is of a writer/professor of writing,

and another a theatre person- stage actor, artistic director..
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 367

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got back to civilisation and a computer, too late for a guess at the physicist!
Will try to find time to look at other three nex couple of days.
Interestingly, the correct chart for the military man, 1, is the only one with Mars in 10th (WSH sidereal). Should have looked for the obvious!
Graham
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 367

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello
Here's my attempt for the remaining three charts:

"One of the charts is for a well known singer/songwriter":
I'd say that's number 4: Venus R10 and singifier of voice in 5 (artistic talent) with Saturn R1 ad 2 (voice again, and means of sustenance, i.e. perhaps earnings). Mars in 7 aspects 1 and 10, giving energy and determination for performing career. Jupiter R3 (performing arts) in 1.

"Another is of a writer/professor of writing":
I think that's number 3: Jupiter in H1, Venus R1 in 9 (higher learning) with Mercury (R9 and signifier of writing, communication)

"and another a theatre person- stage actor, artistic director":
I'll go for number 2 for that. Mercury ruler of 3 (performance, performing arts) in 5 (artistic talent). Mars in 7 aspects 1 and 10 = energy and determination for performing career. But I think the main thing is North node in 7, ruled by Moon which is in 5 ruled by Venus, in partile trine aspect to MC in 11 (trine is the only aspect for nodes in Indian astro), thus connecting career aspirations and remuneration (MC, H11), ambition and leadership (NN), the public (Moon, H7) and Venus (R5 and natural signifier of "arts for pleasure").

Congratulations to Mark for his analysis leading to chart 1 for the military man. Most of the reasoning is of course not transferable to sidereal, but I was interested by Mark's remark:
Quote:
I have been examining all the charts looking for a well placed Mars (with strong Jupiter connections) rather than finding a strong air sign link.

Sidereally, Mars is in 10 in that chart (with NN) (WSH) and squares H1 (Sagittarius) and Saturn in 1 (R2: means of sustenance, affinities; and R3: "martial prowess", valour) Jupiter's dispositor is Mars, though Jupiter is in 12.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3608
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

congrats graham! you got all 3 correct. thanks for soldiering on with the exercise and hopefully others will read your comments on the sidereal thread to learn/benefit from your astro rationale for this.. thank you!

one of the charts is for a well known singer/songwriter - 4

dorival caymmi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorival_Caymmi

another is of a writer/professor of writing, - 3

wp kinsella
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._P._Kinsella

and another a theatre person- stage actor, artistic director - 2

richard monette
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Monette

astro data for caymmi is off a few sites. astro data for the last 2 can be had off astrodatabank.. thanks again everyone for sharing..
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